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Need to be sure of your avionics doing this

Peter, operator approval is required for N register operating outside the US. The CAA stuff applies to G register. The King Schools course is needed to apply for the LoA but it is still a separate application to the FAA.

Edited to clarify that the King Schools course is not mandated but you must prove training and it is the only cost effective way to do so for GA.

Last Edited by JasonC at 15 Nov 19:23
EGTK Oxford

There is a discussion of that approach here

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Is PRNAV approval required in order to
legally fly LPV approaches in Europe?

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

At least in the UK, no unless you are an AOC operator.

Link

Last Edited by JasonC at 19 Nov 11:35
EGTK Oxford

Is PRNAV approval required in order to legally fly LPV approaches in Europe?

No – I don’t think there is any connection at all.

To fly LPV approaches you just need a “W” box and an AFMS that authorises that, and that’s true for both EASA-reg and N-reg.

In practice you need a BRNAV compliant installation IAW AC20-138 which basically means the required annunciators in the right field of view, and some VHF interference tests.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I am asking because it is my impression that there is a lot of confusion and misinformation among pilots regarding the terms RNAV (BRNAV and PRNAV) and RNP…heck, it is indeed all quite complicated, with various bits of regulations, guidelines and so on floating around in Europe and worldwide.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I was at a flying instructor refresher seminar, where several professional and semi-professional instructors insisted that, as a private pilot, one needed specific aircraft, pilot and operator approvals in order to legally fly LPV approaches in Europe…

It’s quite a mess…

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany
Is PRNAV approval required in order to
legally fly LPV approaches in Europe?

No. (How do I know? Because I’m the one within our company who holds the PRNAV courses.)

Last Edited by what_next at 19 Nov 13:07
EDDS - Stuttgart

Just a couple of weeks ago, I was at a flying instructor refresher seminar, where several professional and semi-professional instructors insisted that, as a private pilot, one needed specific aircraft, pilot and operator approvals in order to legally fly LPV approaches in Europe…

That, however, is just complete nonsense. Not suprising though – all the instructors I met during my PPL training were completely clue-less when it came to anything to do with actually flying somewhere. Instructors like What Next who actually do it for real are rare.

You should point all these people to EuroGA

The more widespread issue – a legal point really but since we are talking “legal” – is that you need an AFMS (flight manual supplement) for your GPS that specifically authorises these things:

BRNAV
PRNAV
GPS/RNAV approaches
LPV approaches

Over the years, most GNS boxes were installed without any of that paperwork, and they are not legal for any IFR in Europe (non-UK) especially IFR in CAS. That was why I did this. It is paper only… but if somebody doesn’t like you, and you fly a GPS approach, it is in full view of the whole circus, and…

PRNAV paperwork remains a tricky area. On the one hand I am told that a GTN comes with the EASA AML STC which includes the right PRNAV AFMS, and there are even a few people who have done it that way. On the other hand I am told this is wrong and the aircraft still needs to be approved. And same for an N-reg even though the FAA STC covers both PRNAV and LPV – same as the EASA one – and actually does so for the GNS “W” boxes too.

What the hell is required for the aircraft, in addition to the GPS installation?

I know of two people who know this PRNAV stuff in great detail, for private ops in piston GA. One rarely posts here, and the other says he never will

As I have said before, I have no current “need to know” (my GPS doesn’t qualify for PRNAV) and I am not spending time on it because by the time I get around to it, the regs will have changed anyway.

Last Edited by Peter at 19 Nov 15:16
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

That, however, is just complete nonsense.

At least FOCA (specifically Urs Buergi, Head of Section Training organisations and light aircraft operations) thinks that a special pilot approval is needed for LPV starting this october (directive O-017-). That approval requires a theoretical and practical course (which can be done in an approved simulator or on the aircraft). That LPV approval also grants you PRNAV approval.

LSZK, Switzerland

On the other hand I am told this is wrong and the aircraft still needs to be approved.

Not according to the above mentioned FOCA directive O-017. Showing an approved flight manual (supplement) is enough.

LSZK, Switzerland
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