I think it is true that the teaching on the subject is often conservative. When I did my IMC rating, in a C172, my instructor who had considerable IFR GA experience told me once to climb in the lower temps and we did, where we began to pick up ice. “See how the speed drops? Ice is heavy and messes with the aerofoil. Let’s descend now”. This left me feeling very wary of ice and I was always sure that I wouldn’t plan flights into IMC below 0.
The aircraft I fly now is deiced and I have to say that we always have the electrical prop de ice on if in IMC at 0C or below, but we don’t often get enough ice to warrant using the boots on the wing. Often we don’t get any ice at all. I would be calmer now about ice than I was back then, but I would still always make sure to have an escape.
As I’m not far away from starting the actual flying lessons for my instrument rating this topic is a hot one for me. I’ve spoken with my CFII to convey my wish to be as much as possible in actual IMC so that I get a good feel for it. I don’t want to get my IR in all sunshine and then venture out into IMC the first time on my own. I want to do the mistakes with someone with experience next to me.
With ice it should be similar. I think there is a need to somehow practice good decision making for IFR flights with an icing threat. Avoid at all cost is certainly safe but renders the whole idea of IFR essentially useless. So I want to learn how to plan, what good out options look like on any given day and how to execute them. Plus I want to know what are warning signs that tell me that my planned options are about to expire and I have to change something immediately.
But I don’t want an instructor to scare me. I expect that professional to teach me how to deal with the issue.
The same holds true for deciding on my personal approach minimums and when I’m ready to lower them.
I do not think that ICE must necessarily be part of your IFR flying. I know enough experienced IFR pilots who tell me that they avoid any icing. Maybe it’s not right to say – but you also don’t practice CFIT ;-) Okay, sorry for the stupid joke, couldnt resist
Not everything that is illegal and dangerous must actually be practiced.
If you do your IFR in Germany then you will certainly see enough of actual IMC. And you will quickly learn that on many winter days IFR flights are not possible at all. And then you’ll be surprised that on some of those ()when the celing is below the MRVA) a VFR flight will be possible!
The most important thing to learn is that “conservative” is a very, very good attitude in aviation.
The main differences between icing and terrain are
- the terrain forecast, otherwise known as map, tends to be a lot more accurate that the icing forecast
- exiting terrain safely after inadvertent entry is rare
(can’t resist, either!)
More seriously: some things are not done in regular flying, but are practiced for good reason. Examples are instrument flight for a PPL [legal with instructor, illegal alone afterwards], engine failure practice with very low go-around [not illegal in UK, but not recommended in general]; Also in the syllabus: stalling, low-level nav at 600ft or so.
Maybe this is something that should be done in the simulator. These things are great for abnormal stuff, so actually throwing in icing on occasion (briefed and taught the first time, and then on occasion as a surprise) will aid recognition and reaction…
In icing learning how important airspeed is, is a critical skill. That is true whether you are climbing through in an aircraft suitably equipped and often need to accelerate to a min ice penetration speed, or level in a layer. Look at the TBM accident. The ice created a problem. It appears however that a stall/spin was what did the aircraft in. Same as with an EFATO – no matter what, don’t stall.
Flying all year round in Europe IFR icing would be very hard to avoid altogether without cancelling a lot of flights. Which you can naturally do.
But of course it is fine to take whatever approach you like. Sometime however, you will end up in some icing and will need a plan.
Saying that training by seeing some light ice form in circumstances where there is a safe exit below is dangerous I think slightly misunderstands the effect of ice.
More seriously: some things are not done in regular flying, but are practiced for good reason. Examples are instrument flight for a PPL [legal with instructor, illegal alone afterwards]
That may legally work in the UK, but not in most other countries. Even if the instructor happens to havean IR, 99% of all PPL training in Germany is conducted in aircraft that are not IFR equipped or approved, so no chance for legal IMC flight.
Some instructors occasionally take their students into IMC illegally, but a) it is not a good message to purposely break the rules in front of a primary student and b) even if he promises to not do so, the student will eventually tell others about it at the airport bar…
exiting terrain safely after inadvertent entry is rare
haha! That’s funny!
Yes, I think icing would be good for simulator training, I have no idea if any sims can do that …?
I DO practice stalls, go-arounds and a lot of other stuff regularly. In my IFR training we did extenisve airwork in the clouds, and i remember well how that stressed me the first times, especially the turning stalls while changing configuration. But “Ice” we didn’t practice. But we did have ice once and i remember how the windshield froze within SECONDS. I found a bit scary, but when we existed the clouds the ice disappeared quickly
Climbing up into icing conditions is safe if, as stated above, the 0C level is say 1000ft above the MSA so you have the escape route.
You might make a fool of yourself if you embarked on a high altitude IFR flight and have to cancel and go back down because you collected too much ice.
However there is a huge caveat here: it is OK to do this only if you know how much ice your aircraft can carry.
I happen to know how much a TB20 can carry and still be controllable – albeit at some fairly high speed, from which one could not land on anything shorter than about 3000m. This infamous near death experience was published several years ago by a very foolish American pilot who made loads of mistakes, starting with embarging on that particular flight without oxygen… on the last page is this pic which he took some time after landing and with some of the ice having melted
Here is another; not mine but I know who took the photo:
I have been up to 35mm myself and the aircraft was controllable, at max power only, 120kt, in a slight descent. The stall speed was probably about 110kt and the stall warner was of course frozen in the ice. The 35mm took about 5 mins (five minutes) to accumulate. I do have a TKS deiced prop however, and a TB20 without that might not be developing enough power to fly fast enough to maintain control.
So, collecting say 10mm on a TB20 is a “known quantity” and the standard escape route should work. You should exercise the escape route before you reach 10mm!
But what about the type you are flying? Do you have this kind of data?
How much can an SR22 carry? Anecdotally, very much less than the above, before it becomes uncontrollable. You have the chute but it takes only seconds to dive through the max chute deployment speed, if you totally lose control.
A PA28? No idea. Maybe OK for a few mm but I have seen no data. A DA40/42? Anecdotally, as bad as the SR22 is anecdotally. I’ve never seen any photos or read any accounts for these types which were credible and contained “information”.
I see a lot of more experienced pilots get casual about icing, especially some pilot forum “sky gods”, but I reckon it is only a matter of time before they go very quiet and stop writing that stuff on the forums. One particular chap (not posting here) comes to mind. He must have had the IR (the gold plated UK CAA one of course – he would have never sunk to the level of going FAA ) about 30 years and was always saying how ice occurs so rarely. Lately he wrote about a near death experience if his (in a private flyer) and it didn’t suprise me at all.
If you fly in IMC, between 0C and about -10C, but especially around -5C, you can guarantee ice. Maybe not in 5 mins, or even 30 mins, but it will come. Or it could come fast – a pilot I know picked up 10mm in seconds, recently, in a cumulus cloud. Or you could fly for 30 mins, nothing, and then you get 10mm in 2 minutes, in what looks the same cloud.
One cannot avoid IMC below 0C. To do so would kill most IFR flight in the winter, and most Eurocontrol IFR flight any time of the year – even in Spain or Greece. The trick is to climb to VMC on top for the enroute section without fail, always have a way out in case of emergency (via descent into warm air), and always try hard to avoid dense IMC, by heading for blue patches to climb/descend through. Do not fly IMC enroute below 0C because then ice will get you one day, big-time.
The thing you can’t do without de-ice gear (and anyway can’t do for any period of time even if you do have de-ice gear) is flying in icing conditions if the 0C level is too low (or below the surface ) That makes some winter flight hard – you have to remain VMC, simply…
A TKS de-iced prop is a relatively cheap upgrade (a few k) and is the best thing you can stick on your plane. Forget fancy avionics if you don’t have that. Get a TKS prop (or a heated prop if you can get one). It is easy to use, uses very little fluid (1-2 litres a year), and keeps the front window ice-free due to the overspray from the prop.
Weather forecasts in Europe are useless for this purpose. There have been sites purporting to show icing areas but all those I have seen were blindingly obvious by looking at the fronts on the MSLP charts. Here is a rather simplistic “analysis”
The comments in the pic above refer to surface conditions; the high altitude conditions are likely to be hazardous in more places than shown.
I found a bit scary, but when we existed the clouds the ice disappeared quickly
I actually think this is an important point that I never understood until I saw it for real. Ice can accumulate quickly and this can be very worrying. If there is warm air below ice melts very rapidly in the airflow.
Of course it can also sublimate at colder temperatures if you are able to climb through the layer but this is a very slow process.
Interesting report, Peter!
But I do not intend to test “how much it carry”.
I have been up to 35mm myself and the aircraft was controllable, at max power only, 120kt, in a slight descent. The stall speed was probably about 110kt and the stall warner was of course frozen in the ice.
For my taste this is playing with your life. Because once you lose control – you will never recover. There’s simply too many examples for that. (And the TB20 has no CAPS …)
