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UK CAA looking to mandate ADS-B OUT

This is doing the rounds e.g. in this rag.

The last para is probably avoiding saying that it costs too much smiley You don’t get excessive alerts; that is BS.

cap3217

The 140kt figure exempts most traditional piston GA like Cessnas, PA28s etc.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I have to wonder what is the point?

It seems to suggest that it’s to facilitate separation with drones.

But I would have thought that the aircraft most likely to be shareing the airspace with them would be the sub 140kt aircraft. Generally the faster you go, the higher you go and the more likely you are to be inside controlled airspace.

So if you mandate adsb for everyone, expect the aircraft you most want seperation from, then that seems pointless.

EIKH Kilrush, Ireland

Yes I am sure drones is a big driver here.

Mode S is not yet mandatory and this move achieves that also. It also rules out portable ADS-B OUT devices like the Sky Echo 2 (whose TX performance is very substandard actually). But I am sure most >140kt planes have Mode S already. A tricky topic; I know a fair number who are Mode C + SE2 and staying that way due to the CAA airspace bust persecution policy… and then you might look like this on TCAS smiley

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

https://www.caa.co.uk/newsroom/news/consultation-launched-on-making-aircraft-more-visible-in-uk-skies/

Looks like they’re proposing this as a universal rule in the UK below FL100. If you fly below 140 KIAS (or are incapable of flying above not clear how they are proposing to define this) then only SIL 1 is necessary (so SkyEcho2 should be fine). Above 140 KIAS they’d like to propose a certified ADS-B out transponder may need to be fitted. Currently they’re running a consultation on this so not yet a rule.

I for one think that this is a good thing as see and avoid is very tricky. I mostly find it hard to spot an aircraft even after the controller tells me where to look.

EGKB, United Kingdom

I don’t mind for the future installs, but the question is who pays for the retrofits.
I really don’t want the thousands of spamcans and/or microlights to be paying even for SkyEcho 2 – they already have a Mode S, so why is it them that pay for UAS comfort and conenience?
Although that is a mute point as it was already noted elsewhere, that even the increased license/rating issue costs are due to the government forcing GA to pay for UAS.
This whole “consultation” feels more and more like “let’s pretend the others wanted it”.

EGTR, United Kingdom

PDF

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Because mode S needs to be interrogated by radar so you can’t easily see it on an iPad/panel installation (I guess you could wait for a reply but what about outside of radar coverage?). SE2 only costs about £600. If you hit a drone (probably impossible to see given the size) it’ll be even more expensive smiley

Last Edited by Parthurnax at 14 Jul 16:55
EGKB, United Kingdom

This seems insane. It would be the end of GA inthe UK – which is perhaps the idea. The cost of retrofitting the largely ancient fleet would be crazy – and would take decades, given the avionics capacity available.

I say that even though personally I would love to see this. ADS-B is pretty much useless here in France, and no doubt in the UK too. Maybe 10% of non-airliner traffic is equipped.

LFMD, France

Parthurnax wrote:

SE2 only costs about £600. If you hit a drone (probably impossible to see given the size) it’ll be even more expensive

Well, yes, but instead of banning UAS, UK CAA is forcing GA to be better equipped than UAS.
In the end, why can’t the drones install active TCAS?!

EGTR, United Kingdom

A drone of a decent size can emit ADS-B OUT, but you would need a hefty one to carry a TAS605A smiley

Another factor is that much of UK low level traffic is Mode A (actually Mode C/S but altitude turned off due to the CAA busting policy) and drones fly mostly at low levels. And you cannot avoid Mode A targets very well.

One hopes a better ADS-B OUT box (than the near-useless SE2) will come on the market.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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