Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Flight Director

This is a difficult area.

It is very easy for a private owner, with even a half reasonable IFR aircraft, to find themselves in a position where there simply isn’t an instructor within many miles who understands modern avionics. When I got the TB20, 2002, I got signed off on the type by an instructor who didn’t know how an HSI or a KLN94 worked. I had to learn it all myself.

But also avionics are quite specialised. I am pretty sure there isn’t an instructor anywhere on the UK GA scene who knows the Sandel SN3500 EHSI.

The Cirrus scene benefits from

  • streamlined equipment
  • owners have above average money
  • COPA runs fly-ins and various training programmes (I get their emails all the time)

so there is enough “meat” in it for some type-specialised instructors to make a living out of it. That is not possible on the Cessna/Mooney/Beech/Piper scene (in Europe) because (largely due to average fleet age and lots of odd equipment retrofits) no two are the same.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There are some Cirrus CFIs like that in the USA, but very few. In Germany I have not found somebody yet who can really answer all questions I had – and some i still have. But COPA is great and there’s always somebody who really knows what he’s talking about. I leared a lot there. And there’s some great instructors too – who also travel worldwide and teach Cirrus pilots.

When I first had the Cirrus I asked the german Cirrus dealer CEO to show me me some autopilot modes of the DFC90. “No problem, he said”, and he sounded like a typical grandfather. Then on the first approach he pressed some buttonas and went “hey, wait … what is it doing now?” … And when i dared to fly the ILS with A/P and full flaps he went berserk and accused me of “Trying to kill him” … because “no way can you fly on A/P with full flaps” … (the manual states that with the optional flap wire installation, which i have, it is safe to use the A/P with full flaps). Actually the DFC90 flies like the airplane is on rails with full flaps. I gave up after that and studied forums on the net.

When i did my IFR training the A/P in the schools IFR trainer (C-172RG) was bad the whole time. I did not fly on A/P once.

Last Edited by Flyer59 at 18 Mar 19:21

I got much farther by reading the manual and grilling the manufacturer on the forum than by flying with any boffin who might be a superior aviator but does not have in-depth knowledge of a specific autopilot.

On the specific AP that is very well possible. The general concept of what a FD can do and how to get the most out of it requires an FI who uses flight directors routinely and knows them. In the training outfit I work with, all FI’s are IFR rated, most are airline pilots in their day job and are on top Cirrus rated. So they know even the S-Tec 55X AP, even though it got replaced in their machine by an Avidyne one. When I did my IR on the Seneca all those years back, my instructor was a former Biz Jet captain who gave me a whole lot of insight on how to use a FD correctly and what it does. This does apply to most FD’s I’ve come across since. Once you have the general concept, you can fly the FD.

Apart, there are not that many systems which offer an FD. KFC150/200/225, STEC 55x and 62 are by far the most popular, add the older Cessna/Century Systems.

From what some people report here, there are FI’s out there who don’t know about FD’s even though they train people on airplanes equipped with FD’s but are scared or unable to use them. THAT is a very bad thing and totally unacceptable.

A specific installation is another chapter altogether. I am in the process right now with my FI team to write the procedures and checklists for the new installation. It is a very interesting work and also gives a lot of insight how to deal with it. They know the Aspen, they know the S-Tec 55x from the Cirrus and they know more than I ever will about the GNS430W for the same reason. So they are more than competent to teach others how to use it as well as know what they don’t know and need to learn as this installation is different to the Cirrus one in terms of Altitude Alert/Capture and some other things. Before we let anyone loose on this system, we want to make damn sure they know what they are doing.

Alexis,

What you describe with the Cirrus dealer is absolutely inacceptable. How is it possible that this guy does not know his own product? If you ever need a FI who knows the Avidyne/DCF90 system like the back of his hand, give me a shout, the guy who works with me now does. He has one himself, trains on it and knows it inside out.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

FDs are not that hard to use. It is the A/Ps that are hard. If you can work the autopilot you can fly the FD given basic hand eye coordination.

EGTK Oxford

Thanks, Mooney Driver, but that’s long ago, and I’ve trained myself in the meantime – with the help of people who have the same equipment.

I’ve personally witnessed that guy taking off in OVC001 from a VFR airfield. He came by airline to pick up an SR22 that had engine trouble and fly it to his shop for inspection.

Peter

I have a reasonable grasp of modern auto flight systems but I think if I gave up the day job to teach people to use them I think I would very quickly starve to death.

My “what the f*** is it doing now?” moments have gone down to pretty much zero since I replaced the S-TEC 60-2 with the Avidyne DFC90.

The last “wtf” moment I had when I let it fly an ILS but for whatever reason the GNS430W did not auto slew the pointer and like always in these situations, I tried fixing the AP setup instead of taking over control and putting the aircraft on course…

Peter
I have a reasonable grasp of modern auto flight systems but I think if I gave up the day job to teach people to use them I think I would very quickly starve to death.

In a previous life I was paid to do that: ATA 22 for maintenance guys on heavy jet. Used to be interesting with all the interlocks, relay logic, CWS modes and explaining inner outer loops etc…in modern in A-buses all about data buses test failed or passed…
Flight Directors with or without ‘’The Moustache on the ADI’’ where simply explained as part of the A/P feedback loop and are as such part of the whole system…

Last Edited by Vref at 19 Mar 08:59
EBST

The last “wtf” moment I had when I let it fly an ILS but for whatever reason the GNS430W did not auto slew the pointer and like always in these situations, I tried fixing the AP setup instead of taking over control and putting the aircraft on course…

I think you will find that a large % of GNS owners don’t know the logic the box uses to transition from tracking the GPS to tracking the LOC and then the GS

And I don’t know it either – but then I don’t have a GNS box…

In my plane I have a “checklist for ILS” which contains all the steps e.g. set DCT to airport, set GPS to OBS, set LOC bearing, set NAV/GPS switch to NAV, press APR when approaching magenta line. Leave out one step and it can be a whole load of fun Press APR too soon and you can pick up a false localiser. It is the only checklist I use when airborne.

In a previous life I was paid to do that: ATA 22 for maintenance guys on heavy jet. Used to be interesting with all the interlocks, relay logic, CWS modes and explaining inner outer loops etc…in modern in A-buses all about data buses test failed or passed

Would you like to guess what % of service airline pilots understand their systems down to that level? I am not suggesting they need to, 99.9% of the time anyway, but I bet the vast majority don’t. You need to be a real anorak to get your head around that, and any pilot like that isn’t going to have time for the female cabin crew

I have a reasonable grasp of modern auto flight systems but I think if I gave up the day job to teach people to use them I think I would very quickly starve to death.

Probably you could say that for all flight instruction. One never makes significant money doing it. The motivations lie elsewhere: a low cost way of getting in the air, hour building, putting something back into society, enjoyment of teaching (well, on the % of people who respond well), and when I was doing my PPL shagging the female students was a big part of it, with my main instructor (who had to vanish suddenly) showing me how you “have to” lean right over the student to access the fuel selector on the PA28

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top