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Farnborough Controlled Airspace Proposal

Peter wrote:

I would love to see a lot of almost empty Class D airspace changed to Class E with a TMZ

I agree, but a TMZ would need to be bigger than the present CAS, so I think if you posted that on one of the UK sites, you would get a reception similar to walking into a church and saying that virgin mary got pregnant via casual sex

If you have a transponder fitted, the whole of Europe is essentially already a TMZ.

The TMZ/Class E can be exactly the same size as the present class D, there would be no need to enlarge it. Aircraft not fitted with transponders would continue as they are today, and aircraft fitted with transponders will already have them on as they approach the airspace (and if they didn’t switch them on before takeoff are in contravention with the ANO)

Last Edited by alioth at 13 Jul 09:34
Andreas IOM

If you have a transponder fitted, the whole of Europe is essentially already a TMZ.

Sure but almost nobody knows about that reg. AFAIK it is virtually unknown in the UK.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It’s been mentioned in the LAA mag a few times already, so any LAAer who reads the magazine will know. It’s also been in the recent CAA annual magazine. Perhaps the CAA need to be a bit proactive about it and send flyers out to GA airports, and make sure instructors check that pilots know this on a BFR (after all what’s the point of a BFR if not to ensure pilots keep up with changes)

Last Edited by alioth at 13 Jul 10:34
Andreas IOM
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

With the exception of LHR CTR, I plan straight lines on every VFR flight (I might make a tiny diversion like this

when it’s easy to sidestep than press the PTT), and admittedly that never takes me through Manchester (I would ask if it were to, it’s just that I never need to go to Warton or Blackpool) and it is very rare indeed that I don’t get through, either on my straight line track or very close to it.

I find the common assertion that it is difficult quite mystifying, and I think it mainly comes from people who don’t ask, probably because they have been put off by similarly ignorant people on forums or in bars. I have even heard instructors doing this, God help us.

EGKB Biggin Hill

In that case, there is no possible objection to Class D at Farnborough, Biggin Hill, Exeter, even Shoreham

But I don’t like writing disingenuous one-liners because they are useless. The issue with CAS is obvious: you don’t always get a transit. So you have to have a Plan B, and be ready to execute that, often on an extremely short time scale (I had to commence an orbit about 30 secs before one boundary on Tuesday, despite asking for a transit about half an hour before). And by the time you have that Plan B programmed, you may as well fly it and save yourself the hassle…

With Solent my success is about 90%, so I keep asking for it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

In that case, there is no possible objection to Class D at Farnborough, Biggin Hill, Exeter, even Shoreham

No, no, no.

The objection is not for the sake of SEPs and above, it is for gliders, balloons, powered hang gliders and the plethora of other airspace users for whom Class D is a real barrier.

EGKB Biggin Hill

While the “barrier” is in the head, it is still real.

These days, I am comfortable getting out of Biggin, crossing the City CTR on the way north, an then via Luton, with very little time to get the clearances. Biggin of course helps advising the City controllers ahead of departure. And I know if I cannot get the clearance (and that has happened once in maybe 20 flights) I have a different route, and while I think about it ahead of the flight (no London clearance – go around the zone to the East, no Luton clearance – go trough the Luton/Stansted gap), if it happens I can “just do it”.

However, as every instructor knows, beginners (and many non-beginners) find radio calls very hard, and need to carefully pre-plan the “plan B route”, adding to pre-flight hassle, so in practice they go straight to “Plan B” without even trying to execute “Plan A”

Fortunately, in this proposal, that “Plan B” is still possible. For those who don’t want to ask for a clearance, just go around this stuff to the south.

Biggin Hill

Cobalt wrote:

just go around this stuff to the south.

My view is that this should be discouraged as far as possible, as the good burghers of Guildford will not want to showered with bits of PA28 mixed up with C150 on a regular basis.

EGKB Biggin Hill

I would perhaps suggest that any pilot who ‘finds radio calls very hard’ shouldn’t be flying.

If you get refused a class D transit then it’s either:

  • That they genuinely are too busy to fit you in – such is life;
  • That your requested routing was a non-starter;
  • That you sounded a bit carp on the radio and the controller decided they didn’t trust you in controlled airspace;
  • A refusal as a matter of policy – which should be reported and complained about in the strongest possible terms.
EGLM & EGTN
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