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FCC radio telephone operators permit / radio station license

boscomantico wrote:

Also, I was not aware that the EASA regs demanded a PLOG for every flight, irrespective of VFR or IFR. Current german regs require it only for IFR. This may in the future catch out a lot of VFR pilots who go out just “for a bimble”.

C210_Flyer wrote:

But what is the difference between 8 and 9 when 8 is basically a print out of your current flight plan and 9 is details of the filed ATS flight plan?

Journey log is where you came from and where you are going to. The AMC says an operational flight plan, or a “technical log” are all acceptable. The Technical Log normally contains departure and destination airfields plus fuel/oil state and any defects encountered, nothing more detailed. So a full operational flight plan is not required to be carried.

The ATS flight plan is the formal flight plan you filed. The wording says “details of”, so one could argue that you only need to know the callsign, EOBT and who it was filed with and when, but in practice having a copy would be good. In practice, I carry the e-mail confirming the flight plan with its contents.

Biggin Hill

Wasnt the point of all those Bureaucratic meetings at ICAO to have a uniform seamless system that everyone follows. Hopefully one with sanity. Whatever happened to ARROW?

Another good one!

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

You are obviously right about the pilot’s logbook and part-NCO. It is currently required to be carried under national german regulatiom though, and I guess it is also under other national regulations.

Pilot logbooks are a licencing requirement, not an ops requirement. The rules are in EASA Part FCL or local equivalents (Germany: LuftPersV). Part-NCO and SERA do not say anything about them. In a similar way, neither part-NCO nor SERA require you to carry the licence at all – but Part FCL does.

Germany can require a specific way to maintain logbooks (so, for example, rule out electronic logbooks) because logbooks have to be “in a form acceptable to the authority”, but that only applies to pilots with German licences.

I have CAA and FAA licences, and both accept electronic logbooks.

Germany cannot require pilots licenced in other countries to carry anything, the LuftPersV makes that requirement and simply does not apply to these pilots.

Last Edited by Cobalt at 15 Aug 13:21
Biggin Hill

Cobalt wrote:

Also, there is no “ship’s log” required. What is required is a “journey log, or equivalent”. The AMC / guidance material clarifies that for example an operational flightplan is sufficient (AKA as the “PLOG” or somesuch). So strictly speaking it can only ever cover the flight you just landed from, or the flight you are going to undertake.

The GM says that “’Journey log or equivalent’ means that the required information may be recorded in documentation other than a log book, such as the operational flight plan or the aircraft technical log.” To me that means that you will need an operational flight plan for every flight and archive them! If you don’t, you don’t have the same information since the purpose of the journey log is to have a record of all flights.

This doesn’t seem reasonable for noncommercial operators in general, but would be for CAT since they have operational flight plans for every flight and I believe they have to archive them anyway.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Cobalt,

I don’t disagree, and didn’t say anything to the contrary. German licensing requirements obviously apply only to german license holders.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 15 Aug 13:43
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

It’d be interesting to know if some additional rules apply to FAA pilots like C210_Flyer operating outside of the U.S., but anyway within the U.S. a pilot does not need to log all flights, never mind carry his logbook. The FAA requires only that he maintain a record in some fashion that he’s met the currency requirements for his operations (e.g. current flight review and 90 day currency if carrying passengers). He doesn’t need to document every flight if he has no interest in doing so.

If there were some special FAA pilot logbook rule for international ops in particular, that would be similar to the radio license rules – pilots and planes in the U.S. don’t have FCC radio licenses. I believe I’ve also read something similar about journey logs, nobody in the US would no what you were talking about but I believe I read someplace that an obscure FAA rule requires them for international ops – to comply with some ICAO issue.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 15 Aug 14:59

Not sure about journey logs but since a lot of US pilots fly the Caribbean and Central America as well as Canada all international Im sure AOPA would have mentioned it when asked about trip requirements when going abroad.

Here is what I do. I use RR when their Trip plan is sent to me via email I print out Pages 1-4 and the next to the last page which is the flight plan. Pages 1-4 Has the wx for Departure and Destination airport as well as Alternate. Pg 3-4 have the route of flight. I figure if any authority wanted to dig further I can access my e-mail and show the full brief with notams I received.

Because the regs require a flight/wx brief no matter what the wx is I call or obtain a WX briefing. I dont want to run afoul of my insurance so I dot all my i (s).

By the way my RT license is so old it has no numbers on it. At first the FCC person could not understand why it had no numbers but after a brief check she came back and said it was ok and she issued me my planes RT license.

KHTO, LHTL

I’m curious, does FCC recognize certificates issued by authorities of EU member states? AFAIK, EU MS mutually recognize theirs (it would be quite a mess otherwise with JAA/ EASA licences). But I don’t know on what basis.

Martin wrote:

I’m curious, does FCC recognize certificates issued by authorities of EU member states?

Not to my knowledge. You need an FCC RT certificate to fly an N-reg outside the US.

EGTK Oxford

I hope it’s an urban myth but I understand one poor pilot was ramp checked (Holland or Germany?), and failure to produce the $4 FCC bit of paper resulted in a €2,000 on the spot fine.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom
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