Last time I flew with the Swiss “ICAO” chart (2004) it was rubbish, mixing feet and metres for spot elevations,
That was about the last year with mixed feed and meters, nowadays it’s feet only.
….. and then via Marble Canyon to Page
Ah yes, Page, Luscious Lizzie who had a motel beside the airfield and a Vari-Eze …… I wonder whether she’s still around 
[quote fixed – the bq. must not have a space before it]
Re: Grand Canyon. I’ve been a few times to the GCN airport and found it OK with my 172. It’s a $20 – $30 cab ride from the actual Canyon village though. True there’s lots of tour traffic but they are at lower levels than you will fly VFR and the Canyon tower are very helpful. (not so helpful as to allow you to extend your pattern over the Canyon rim however!). The main thing is DA and a 172 etc. with more than 2 up is going to be very lethargic despite the long runway.
GC West I think IMHO is pretty tacky and there’s mention of a landing fee if you don’t take the skyway tour. It’s also uncontrolled and thick with tour planes all reporting unintelligible VFR waypoints. A better alternative out of Vegas might be Valle which has a nice museum. However the best flying trip is Vegas to Page, maybe following the Canyon one way and the Arizona strip country the other. This is an ideal overnight trip with plenty of hotels in Page, some overlooking the Dam. FBO’s at Page are very accomodating. Any attempt to make a one day round trip out of Vegas, even to GCN falls foul of the ‘fly early’ rule since afternoon turbulence (and CB’s) can make it a trial, not to mention temps and DA again.
There’s a special 1/4 mil Grand Canyon VFR chart which I don’t think has been re-issued for many years and is not represented in Foreflight, so try to get a copy Mail order before arriving in Vegas.
When I started flying out of Vegas (VGT) with 100 hrs or less I built up experience going to St George, Death Valley, etc., before tackling ‘the big one’, GCN which turned out to be a non-event as mentioned above. But you can make a round trip without landing most of the way there on 172 fuel ( especially out of Henderson, no class B entry) and I did that a couple of times too.
Re: Grand Canyon. I’ve been a few times to the GCN airport and found it OK with my 172. It’s a $20 – $30 cab ride from the actual Canyon village though.
I guess the airport can get a little busy with tour flights from Vegas and the local helicopters but it didn’t seem particularly dense with traffic to me. Density altitude on the other hand could be a big issue, I would agree.
If you’re reasonably fit it’s not a long walk to the hotels in Tusayan. From there you can get a tour on the ground if you like. Nothing is cheap at Grand Canyon – it’s very much a place for mass tourist pricing. Still very spectacular though, and I think well worth visiting at least once.
Thanks for all info!
Here is a quick report.
I went to Grand Canyon West (1G4) a week ago. Rented a PA32 at Monarch Sky at KHND. We payed 36USD (?) per person for the tour as a landing fee. Stayed there for a couple hours. Went back at sunset. Great trip!
Jonas
+1 for KHND and 1G4….flew there 2 yrs ago from MYF with an unsceduled stop at Needles for a “comfort break”
What is fun is to fly in the Alps, e.g. inside the Mont Blanc massive.
Or to fly to Courchevel Altiport.
I have been a glider tug pilot in the middle of the Norwegian mountains, at Oppdal for the last 3 years. Mostly I have been flying in a Piper Pawnee, even had a dead stick landing in it last years. We also had a 180 HP Super Cub from time to time when the Pawnee was grounded and needed fixing. Lately the club got a WT9 Dynamic, an ultralight. Pieces of fabric started falling off the Pawnee and the maintenance cost already was through the rough, it had to go. It is almost unbelievable, but the WT9 with 100 HP Rotax gets the gliders up just as fast as the 180 HP Super Cub. The Pawnee is a bit better though, but with 235 HP one should only expect as much. And of course, the Pawnee is pure fun to fly, like a big crossover between a tractor and SUV. The WT9 is like a Porsche in comparison, extremely well behaved in the air, fast and quick, even with only 100 HP.
Glider pilots just love Oppdal for one particular reason, mountain waves. They occur when the wind is more than approximately 10-15 knots. In the rotors and turbulence in the valleys below those waves, the flying becomes very interesting, and it doesn’t help to have a 5-6-700 kg glider hanging in a rope behind. One time the gliders reported zero ground velocity at 180 km/h IAS at some alt (100 or so knots), more than 40 knots gust at the ground. Flying in those conditions was doable in the Pawnee, but I wouldn’t dream of doing it in the Super Cub or the WT9, the landing would simply be too difficult. Besides, gliding in those conditions was a bit on the extreme side, even for the most experienced glider pilots.
I live in a rather mountainous area and I’m used to waves, rotors, turbulence and the weather that can change completely during minutes. If this is new to you, then I would suggest you take it gradually. There is no problem flying, but it can get extremely scary if you are not custom to losing 4-500 feet of altitude in a matter of seconds for no apparent reason. Also, if you are not able to predict when the weather starts deteriorating and react to it, it can get dangerous very quickly.
Landing can be a challenge. Airports are almost always situated at the bottom of the valleys where the rotors and turbulence are. Only 1-200 feet above ground, the wind is 3D and turbulent, but at ground level the wind is 2D. In one way this helps, because the aircraft will never be smashed to the ground or suddenly lifted up in the air, but it also is difficult because the wind is still highly turbulent and changes direction all the time. A common mistake is coming in too fast. Then you spend lots of time hovering a couple of feet above ground fighting the turbulence. It’s easier to come in slow and steep and get the wheels on the ground as fast as possible with as little speed as possible. I find it “easy” in the Pawnee and much more difficult in the Cub. The WT9 I haven’t yet flown in that kind of windy conditions.
When the weather is nice, there are absolutely no problems flying in the mountains. Navigation is easy, you follow valleys, rivers and roads.
The first time I ever hear the words “rotor” and “there is no problem flying” together.
Scary.
the last year with mixed feed
Veggie, perhaps? Ah, these youngsters…
