@alioth: That’s how it is done at most fields over here: there may well be someone on the ground with a hand-held radio, but he will not normally reply to calls. Traffic will self announce what they are doing, not expecting any response. When flying into such a field, I will call from a few miles away, with the field in sight. If response comes I request landing information, normally getting an answer like “runway xy in use, look out for gliders” or “runway yz, right hand circuit, no paradrop”. If no answer, join overhead and consult signal square. Either case, join beginning of downwind, at circuit altitude or descending to it, report downwind, report base, report final, report clear of runway.
And indeed, no info about other traffic will usually be given.
I think the same applies to France, but then in French of course.
The US system of it’s either ATC or uncontrolled I found worked very well. That way there’s no uncertainty, and you don’t get pilots thinking that some guy on the ground with an Icom radio is somehow keeping them separated from other traffic.
Indeed! And as Jan says it is not just the US where it is either full ATC or nothing….most (if not all) of the world is like that….I think it inhibits good lookouts and aircraft to aircraft communication and mutual separation….when I read the CAA CHIRP publication I am flabbergasted that so many incidents occur at these fields and yet no-one points out the obvious flaw….
I don’t see the point in AFIS or A/G either especially since a lot of them seem to want to be quasi-ATC
We all prefer an airfield / airport with full ATC of course :-) But I guess AFIS exists to ‘control’ ground movements – Duxford might be an example of where there is a slim benefit for that where there are some big machines moving around occasionally or pleasure trips operating from parallel grass runways.
A/G is helpful for someone flying into an airfield where maybe there is no other traffic broadcasting anything, and in the absence of a signal square (I’ve never practically used one at any airfield I have ever been to), and at the very minimum will tell you the current runway in use, or even if the airfield is shut due to an incident or something, or even that “the circuit is busy, it is recommended to keep a good look out….” . None of the places running A/G are going to want or need a full ATC service.
I don’t see the point in AFIS or A/G either especially since a lot of them seem to want to be quasi-ATC
I don’t either, especially after flying to a manic Sandown on the Isle of Wight this past Saturday. All the A/G guy did is confuse people and make if difficult to get a word in edge wise.
ATC nearly always asked you to report at some VRP
I had a different but related problem the other day. On my way to Jersey, London Information asked me where I was crossing the FIR. I said I was routing St Catherine’s Point to Heauville. Admittedly I didn’t explicitly state I was flying VFR but it would have been obvious from my flightplan, which I had asked them to activate about 15 minutes prior. Also, I didn’t explicitly state that St Catherine’s Point and Heauville were VRPs.
The controller sounded a little confused and asked if I was routing via KATHY. At that point I realised the misunderstanding and restated that I was routing St Catherine’s Point to Heauville VRP but I would be crossing the FIR partway between BOLRO and GARMI. That’s the first time I have been asked about an airways reporting point (or whatever they’re called).
The power of full ATC in Class G is largely illusory.
They help a lot to keep order in the circuit (especially given the often poor UK PPL training e.g. Shoreham would be mayhem without ATC) but unless they have radar their FIS is of little real value for traffic avoidance. Also the cost is very high – of the order of 500k/year for daylight cover and the current UK regs require ATC for any IAP which apart from a certain level of traffic is the main driver in support of ATC at UK GA airfields.
The power of full ATC in Class G is largely illusory.
I think according to ICAO, ATC cannot provide a service when OCAS.
Only FIS is possible.
All VRP’s that I have seen mentioned in Belgium correspond to quite unmistakeable landscape elements, such as a motorway junction or exit, or a junction of canals or railways, but sometimes one has to be in the know.
I think this is key.
Any VRPs that I can identify on the ground, I have learned with the help of a local FI (“Look, it’s the red bridge!”).
If the presentation of VRPs (on ICAO charts, in electronic products, etc.) were accompanied by default by a short description (here: red bridge), it would make life A LOT easier on unfamiliar terrain. In Germany, most (all?) published VRPs are referenced with a code, usually corresponding with the cardinal direction, but they lack a short description.
In not so densely populated areas, it might be easy to “figure” what will be the VRP if you get reasonably close. The example above is VRP N for EDDL and there is an abundance of bridges and other features in the area, so it’s really not practicable to guess-work while flying the airplane and liaising with ATC for a CTA crossing or the like.
Of course, SkyDemon helps, but the Garmin database on board does not know any VFR VRP.
quite unmistakeable landscape elements, such as a motorway junction or exit, or a junction of canals or railways,
I take it you are joking! 
Motorway junctions look mostly the same and there is one every x km.
When I was doing the FAA CPL, I flew with an instructor to a VRP which was some roundabout – yeah, about as unique as a motorway junction. We could not find it (both of us). Eventually she capitulated and consented to me using the GPS (MM running the O/S 1:50k chart).
The specific roundabout wasn’t there. It had been removed a year or so before. Loads of others were nearby though.
but sometimes one has to be in the know.
I think more than “sometimes”, unless one knows the area well, or flies slowly / at a low level.
I think so much of the “system” is set up for pilots who never go anywhere. The moment one tries to fly a decent distance, all these little things come up.
Actually I think much of the GA “system” is set up by ex military people who operated in a very different flying environment. Military jets tend to have relatively little fuel, and until very recently the small ones had pretty poor navigation capability, so they flew in a very tight manner, with every flight carefully planned and executed. If you are flying say a Hawk you don’t pop out of Shoreham to Le Touquet and still have 8 hours’ fuel.
the Garmin database on board does not know any VFR VRP.
That was why I went for the KMD550. Like the Skymap 3C (essentially the same product) that has all the European AIP VRPs. It’s just a poor choice for stuff like PRNAV on which I am going to get screwed. I thought someone said the G500/G1000 have VRPs for Europe… don’t they?
Joking? Me? Joking??? Come on Peter, you should know me better than that, by now. ;)
But at least the AIP can’t be accused of joking, so here goes for the VRP’s on the visual approach chart for EBLG, straight from AD2:
