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Icing (merged threads)

Mine doesnt.

I should have said: almost every Pa28 has heated pitot-static ports (approx. 40,000 built, but couldn't find out how many of these have pitot heaters fitted, vs. approx. 350 Pa46s built) ;-)

EDDS - Stuttgart

Kingairs have heated fuel tank vents as well as heated pitots. On jets with an AoA probe that is heated too

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

I wonder whether Piper's decision to use a combined static+pitot tube was driven by the need for simpler plumbing (just 2 pipes running back to the back of the panel) or the need for a de-iced static port, given that static ports rarely if ever ice up.

Conventional (side-mounted) static ports have the problem of errors during yaw, so one needs them on both sides. Yet, most planes use them.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Conventional (side-mounted) static ports have the problem of errors during yaw, so one needs them on both sides. Yet, most planes use them.

I wonder about that, too. I once had a congested static port on one side and it was a nasty problem, much harder to detect than in the Piper setup with a single port. I was flying with a tailwind so the one port delivered OK values. During approach I ended up in the final leg with the one working port on the lee side. If I had flown to minimums and I didn't have several terrain warning systems (3 in total), I might have hit terrain. My Garmin 695 is now configured to always display the GPS altitude.

Barometric altitude sucks, we should all switch to satellite based systems. Should also save quite some fuel as airliners wouldn't have to ride up and down the 1013hPa pressure layer.

My Garmin 695 is now configured to always display the GPS altitude.

Mine too

Should also save quite some fuel as airliners wouldn't have to ride up and down the 1013hPa pressure layer.

You should sell that idea to the nerds at Eurocontrol. Get them to do something constructive

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

As an aside, how long does a full filled TKS system last in-flight - on, lets say an SR22 with TKS?

IIRC, the book (for the non-FIKI models) says about 60 minutes on "normal" and about 30 minutes on "hi", but I would never take it this far, because

1) if you fly in icing for this long, you will have loads of ice on the unprotected surfaces 2) once you run out of fluid, you have to get out there immediately 3) you will have to bring the aircraft to the service center as they will have to re-prime the fluid lines.

The FIKI models have more endurance but the system is also heavier.

Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany

you will have to bring the aircraft to the service center as they will have to re-prime the fluid lines.

I find that absolutely astonishing.

Is that true for all TKS installations e.g. the TB one also?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I didn't realise it was so little time and as Peter says, that you need to get an engineer to reprime the lines seems absurd.

EGTK Oxford

An hour and a bit is standard for "full TKS" systems that I've seen, if running on max flow.

But it's enough because, as stated, you will pick up too much ice elsewhere which will weigh down the aircraft too much.

The Big Q is what do you if say flying at FL150, you have 4 hrs to run, you are in IMC, and the tops are FL200. This, to me, is the dilemna which drives the choice of equipment such as turbocharging and possibly pressurisation. This is why if I was getting full TKS I would probably want turbocharging also and a 25k ceiling. A TB20/SR22, with its 18k-20k ceiling, can make VMC-on-top 99% of the time in non-frontal / stable wx, and in such wx you are unlikely to get much ice during the transitions. If I wanted serious de-ice that would imply a wish to fly in something rougher, and then all bets are off as to where the tops are, etc.

The alternative POV is that it is fine because you can abandon the flight (from anywhere enroute) and land somewhere if you are getting too much ice and can't escape by climbing. I don't like that but I think a lot of people are happy with it.

On the SR22, it's possible that TKS is much more critical (desirable) because of its aerofoils.

What amazes me is the need to go back to the dealer if the system is allowed to run out. In the context of flying within Europe, doing some "real" trips, that is IMHO absolutely outrageous. But it probably makes sense in the USA where Cirrus dealers are all over the place.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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