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Advanced PPL

I frequently see the remark that the current PPL syllabus is inadequate.

Depending on the source/forum, this is then followed by a various explanations/rants as to why it is insufficient, but not a lot on how one of us shiny badge, green PPL’s can compensate for this shortfall. My approach to most things is that one should always be in some form of learning mode, but I am trying to work out if I need to do anything specific other than the usual PFLs, slow flight, circuits in various configurations, stalls (oh, I am not officially allowed to do that with the schools rented a/c) etc. The “weight” of consensus suggests that I do.

Whilst it depends on what one wants to get out of non-commercial flying, the inference of the PPL remarks is that I am just about safe enough to get from A to B. Assuming (and hoping ) that I am not that borderline, I am curious to hear how you have gone about upskilling yourself to be a better flyer and compensate for the perceived shortfall in adequacy? Note that whilst instructors play a big part in the training experience (and I was happy with mine), I am trying to work out what would make me a better pilot now on the essentials vs the training syllabus we all followed (unless you are ex-military).

One option seems to be an Advanced PPL course such as this one (any opinions on this?) which can also be combined with the standard AOPA aerobatics syllabus. Advanced PPL courses seem to be a fairly recent phenomena which may not be financially viable now or may not have been available to those flying for a while (in which case what did you do?). Alternatively, flying with more experienced pilots or just a process of progressively stretching your limits. However, if you learnt or apply the wrong things, you are likely to reinforce bad practice.

Thoughts please?

CKN
EGLM (White Waltham)

The lists in that link looked OK and there is nothing wrong with them, but for me (and this is a personal thing), for me it would be this:

No particular order really:

  • Using a GPS, whether that be a non-gui linked one, or a GNS430, or SkyDemon or whatever
  • Using the Autopilot
  • Additional IMC training, especially if the EIR, IMCr, IR, IR etc is not desired or an option
  • Use of online systems for tactical weather planning (AeroWeather METAR’s TAF’s (or your data presentation source of choice), GRAMET’s
  • Crossing CAS
  • Flight plans and foreign country checkout
  • Learning to fly with other pilots and knowing role and responsibility limitations
  • Knowing which are the best forums to log on to ;-)

Edit to add, a lot of this will be “non-syllabus” so maybe the reality is you wont get all of this kind of ‘advanced’ training from an official FTO. Though in my case, instructors where I fly from have helped with some of the above from a ‘safety pilot’ perspective while I tested out my own learning of the GNS430 for example, but otherwise you might only learn some of this from other PPL’s only.

Last Edited by PiperArcher at 30 Jun 12:32

How to use this mysterious lever

i.e. engine management.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

When I got my PPL I had not flown to a controlled airport once. I also had not cross the border once.
Most flying was done at 1500ft using death reckoning navigation techniques.

It takes some “eagerness” to get to the level that you fly comfortably through Europe on your own.
I’ve seen quite some fellow PPL students stop flying shortly after they got the license. Or they fly only on good weather days to destinations they’re familiar with.

The key to expand your flying horizon is to find a fellow pilot, and go touring!
Flying to unknown places is a fun thing to do, and very rewarding…

Occasionally, 10 years since getting my pilot certificate, I decide that I need to do new things, or review old things. My pattern is to do it once (or until proficient) with an instructor and then do it on my own. For instance this weekend it was flying cross country though Class B and then into a Class C controlled airport and mixing with commercial jets. Same flight on Saturday and Sunday, just for the experience.

Maybe next it’ll be some different maneuvers, gentleman’s aerobatics.

I think that’s a good way to do it – one stretch at a time, when you feel the need. I’ve never been instructed relative to any kind of fixed syllabus, initially it was to meet checkride standards and then as I wanted to learn beyond that.

I’ve certainly benefited from flying with very experienced pilots and learned a lot from flying and talking with them. If that’s an option, I recommend it. Just watching somebody do something in a very skilled way, learned over many thousands of hours, resets your humility and gives you motivation to ‘be more like that’

Last Edited by Silvaire at 30 Jun 14:20

Although that link looked OK, it seems to me we are heading in a very odd direction if anything else but flying in a pattern requires an instructor and training. Such things are almost exclusively suggested by instructors having too little to do. It is a difference between “it doesn’t hurt” and “is required”, but if the “it doesn’t hurt” becomes the norm, it very soon becomes required at least within clubs. One of the fundamental and very basic things of PPL is to be alone, fly alone, handle difficult and new situations alone. The only way to do that is to fly alone, push yourself small steps at a time. As a new PPL you have all the basic skills to fly around the world, it’s a matter of practicing your skills.

Some new way of flying are best done with instructors, aerobatics, sea, ski, night flying and so on because you have to learn new basics, new techniques that are fundamental for correct and safe flying.

I probably shouldn’t say this, but I think the best way to “move forward” today in the current EASA-sky is to start flying microlights (MTOW 450 kg). That is, unless you can afford your own airplane. You can purchase a basic used fully functional microlight for under 10 thousand € and fly it all across Europe. The money you save by doing this instead of renting, you can use to save for a “real” airplane. That way you will have lots of flying experience and lots of technical experience maintaining your microlight when you eventually get a real one.

I got tired of rented C-172s and started flying microlight. Then started with tailwheel (Cub) which lead to glider towing in a Pawnee. With glider towing I get all the flying I have time to do, I am also building aircraft (experimentals). Now I have to take aerobatics lessons for my soon to be ready aircraft, and even IFR seems a bit cool now (tanks to all the talk in here). I did aerobatics before (basic gentleman style), but that was before they started with required instructions.

Last Edited by LeSving at 30 Jun 14:46
The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Although that link looked OK, it seems to me we are heading in a very odd direction if anything else but flying in a pattern requires an instructor and training. Such things are almost exclusively suggested by instructors having too little to do.

That was my first thought as well. For all this “advanced PPL” stuff you don’t need an instructor at all. A subscription to a good flying magazine (if there is one), a couple of flying buddies with which to share a plane every now and then and the odd chat in the clubhouse are far more useful. Every pilot/student is different and has a different background. Some have no problem at all mastering an GNS430 after an hour of playing with it, others take ten hours. Who is going to pay an instructor for ten hours only to be shown how to operate a GNS430? And the same applies more or less to all the topics on the list.

EDDS - Stuttgart

The biggest problem with advanced training is PPL school politics.

The schools do not want anybody anywhere near them who offers additional training because this is seen as usurping (reducing) their instructors’ authority.

So they won’t promote any such training on their premises or anywhere near if they can prevent it. This is virtually universal. Even that VFR Europe presentation I did in 2012 was totally boycotted by the schools who I asked if they would put a poster up. Politely, but totally.

So anybody offering additional training has to operate on their own, advertising their courses, and basically carving business by hand out of solid rock. Especially as the customer doesn’t get any new paperwork at the end of it.

And most PPL holders never come into contact with anybody outside their school(s) – before they give up flying. In fact I would say that it is pretty well guaranteed that all those who hang in there for the long term are those who have managed to somehow “escape” the PPL training business and bumped into somebody who does it for real.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The schools do not want anybody anywhere near them who offers additional training because this is seen as usurping (reducing) their instructors’ authority.

I don’t see it that way. “My” school would gladly take any chance to increase business in the private pilot sector again. During the last ten years or so (since I joined them as an instructor) we have gone from 25 percent private pilot students / 75 percent ATPL students to something like 5% / 95% and are now almost completely dependent on the airline job market which is as bad as it can get. An advanced PPL course would be an opportunity to get some old PPL students back to the school for some classroom and flying hours. Every hour sold is a good hour. But as I wrote before, the levels and expctations are too different to offer this as a “one course suits all” thing. In order to be efficient, this must be a one-instuctor-for-every-student course and this will make it prohibitively expensive, at least within a commercial training organisation. Maybe an AOPA training camp would be more appropriate, they offer more or less what is requested here.

Last Edited by what_next at 30 Jun 14:59
EDDS - Stuttgart

Some PPLs appreciate having an instructor along when undertaking new routes beyond the areas they are familiar with. In some cases going as far as Greece from the UK which was a nice busman holiday for the instructor.

Commercial ops have LOFT to ensure familiarity with certain sectors, and I would risk grade the weather based on equipment (aircraft and airport), and familiarity with the route. Flying with someone who knows the route seems a sensible way of building experience.

Our school requires exposure and landing under full ATC before allowing solo navigation exercises and I would imagine most schools require this.

In terms of PPL plus the UK IMC rating remains one of the best programmes.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom
23 Posts
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