Al my IFR trips have been airways flights, the question I wanted to ask was if I plan a route mainly outside of the airways system, DCT A DCT B DCT C etc I assume the radio calls are not as simplistic as in the airways, call sign flight level. Do you give more or less the same info as on a VFR flight? Also if your route crosses an airway will you have to request the crossing. A flit plan will have been filed. Thanks
Which country? In Germany, you rarely fly airways but just DCT to waypoints. When filing, every FIR has a limit for directs. The Langen FIR (south west Germany) has 30NM max, the Bremen FIR (north) 0NM. France has 0NM everywhere.
In the UK at least, IFR outside of controlled airspace is just the same as VFR - no requirement to file a flight plan, clearances must be individually negotiated, and handovers aren't always coordinated.
I've never requested an airways crossing (my IMC rating keeps me away), but I imagine this is just the same as requesting clearance through any other bit of airspace: always have a backup plan staying away, and assume you will need to use it. Be competent and polite on the radio and mention you are IFR and you will get your clearance 4 times out of 5.
In my experience, you get much better service up north, as you can climb higher while staying out of airways - I now expect to be handed over all the way from Doncaster to Inverness, but would never expect this down south from Farnborough, Southampton et al; where you will be lower and mixing with lots of local VFR traffic.
Having said that, if you fly in weather bad enough to ground VFR traffic, you will get an incredible service!
Thanks, yes it was uk.
It depends where you are going IFR outside controlled airspace is much the same as VFR but you'll often get handovers from LARS TO LARS .
Example trip from Glos to CI file IFR EGBJ DCT WOTAN DCT ORTAC DCT EGJA
Get a clearance from Glos handover to Filton then Transit Bristol, then just fly DCT EGJA with either handovers or freecall until the CI boundary then vectors to the approach to Alderney.
In the UK, obtaining a pop-up airways crossing clearance is variable, depending on which airway. For example, a request to cross the airways near the Brecon VOR BCN at around F070-F100 made to Cardiff will usually be successful. A request to route through part of the Daventry CTA made to Birmingham will sometimes be successful. A request to cross the LTMA (even at F090 or so) made directly to the sector controller will rarely be successful. For the last, perhaps better to have flightplanned and make the request via the FIR, London Info. This will work for joining CAS for an airways flight starting outside CAS, but I have no experience if trying to fly, lets say BKY to BNN at 4000ft - probably difficult, and why would you want to anyway?
A telephone pre-note to TC always helps, they can then get your flightplan details ready and give the sector controller your details. You will usually get a frequency and squawk.
Scotland seems to be problem-free. The FIR and control controllers seem to work together very easily - sometimes it's the same person doing both jobs.
Flights popping in and out of CAS are not really a problem, if flightplanned. For example, flying up the west coast of the UK, you go into and out of CAS as the airways base goes up and comes down again. Just ask the last sector controller if he will pass your re-join estimate on. Often works easily, sometimes you need to work via London Info.
Just passing on what I have found - others may have different experience.
Alan.
It is several years since I last tried this but I was never successful in getting a "popup" IFR clearance into UK Class A, for anything like a significant flight.
Once I was offered a crossing of a piece of Class A on the way to the Isle of Man but it was just a tiny piece.
This topic has repeatedly come up on UK aviation sites and seems to cause consternation in ATC circles whenever questioned.
My understanding from non-UK ATCOs is that to fly IFR in CAS the ATCO has to create a flight plan for you. It doesn't have to be the whole route; just a fragment will do. What you can't do, in the Eurocontrol system, is just have traffic flying around for hundreds of miles, with nothing "in the computer".
The IFR control units around Europe tend to run off the shelf software, which is modular and the more features you want the more you pay. The UK one (NATS) has apparently not bought the module which enables rapid creation of these flight plans, so ATC have extra work to do to process a pop-up request. Whereas elsewhere in Europe this is usually not a problem. I once asked a NATS ATCO, at a presentation at Swanwick, how come it is easy in France, and he made a derogatory-tone remark that the French probably just sort it out with a phone call 
Well, it seems to work, although as with most pop-up clearances anywhere it can take some minutes for coordination.
So, as with so much in this game, it seems to be down to politics and funding, not individual ATCO attitude where I find the UK ones to be up with the very best in Europe.
Filing Eurocontrol flight plans outside CAS is a grey area where things rarely work the same way twice. In the UK, as indicated above, an IFR flight plan in Class G, perhaps via some bits of Class D, does nothing more than a VFR one, but exposes you to Eurocontrol possibly rejecting it, whereas nobody cares what route you file on a VFR flight plan (in the UK; some other countries do actually look at them).
However it is also possible to file a "definitely IFR" Eurocontrol flight plan (say FL150) which is in Class A mostly but a piece of it pops off into Class G. ATC are supposed to tell you that you are leaving CAS. In Scotland this seems to work seamlessly but "down south" you risk getting dumped back onto FIS (London Info) so your IFR clearance has been trashed.
Peter:
My experience does not accord with your last comment that having left CAS, "your IFR clearance has been trashed." Of course your IFR clearance is no longer valid, but a new clearance can easily be obtained when your track requires a CAS join. My experience is that your FPL remains valid, that units further down your FPL track will be expecting you and it simply necessary for you to agree with your last sector how you will arrange the join. For example:
Flying N57 northbound at F110 during daytime, you will be handed to Warton when you leave CAS 25 miles NW of POL. Warton will give you service for some considerable distance - I think they can work mid-level traffic for about 60 miles. Warton will then hand you over to Scottish - initially Info, then automatically to Control NW of DCS. I flew this route four times a couple of months ago, completely problem free.
Alan.
Interesting, Alan, thanks.
My "solution" to all this has been to file for a high flight level, usually needing oxygen.
There is also an argument to say that the UK is unique in not requiring either that you fly IFR in controlled airspace nor that you have to have an FPL.
Thus my solution to the pop-up IFR quandary is to fly IFR, but remain OCAS and not bother anyone.
