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My next aircraft - 150 Knot 4 seater with good range???

Greeting all,

Forgive me if you are a member of one the ‘other’ UK forums and have already seen this post there. I’m posting this here as well since there is a wider EU audience with a fair proportion of pilots that travel distances on EuroGA.

I’m thinking about my next plane. I currently own an Archer II, but to be honest it really doesn’t fit my mission profile and I am thinking about upgrading late next year.

Mission profile: VFR/IFR mostly from London area to the Continent. I’m based at a 750 metre grass strip. 140 knots plus cruise speed is a requirement. Most trips are long distance so need to go reasonably fast and don’t really like to stop enroute for fuel…like to get there. I like to fly high, say FL100 on average. I’m bringing my O2 tank back over from the States next month so I’ll be good to go high soon.

Requirement – With two up and a pee bottle would like to be able to make the Balearics (750 nm), southern France and northern Croatia non-stop. Need a full fuel payload of at least 200 Kg.

Occasionally four adults (720 Lbs or 326 Kg for the four actual occupants I have in mind) and some bags (~40 kg); would like to be able to haul enough fuel for a 2.5 hour leg plus an hour reserve in that case. If the four adults situation is not compatible with a 750 metre strip, then happy to meet passengers somewhere paved nearby so don’t let that limit you.

Object of desire – single engine, IFR, 4-6 seats but would prefer 4, max budget ~£65,000 (80,000 Euro), with a Garmin 430 or 530, full airways avionics. Constant speed prop and retractable ok. Turbo possibly.

Summary of two most important requirements:

Fuel range/endurance for the long trips
140 kt plus cruise speed

What planes fit that profile? I have an idea but I’d like to hear the opinions of others?

Thank you, Jason

Great Oakley, U.K. & KTKI, USA

Very soon someone here will recommend the TB20 . A pre-GT should fit in the mentioned budget and tick most/all of your boxes.

Another obvious choice is the Commander 114, but it seems to be rarer on the European market.

The 200 hp retractables like the Arrow, Commander 112 or (if you are into exotic types) my ST10 are more immediate step-ups from your current plane. They are cheaper in terms of purchase prize, fuel cost and maintenance (engine overhaul), but you have to compromise on your performance targets.

Retractables aside, what about the C182? They may be rather expensive compared to other aircraft of the same vintage, but most people who fly them say nothing matches their versatility.

And then there is the 182RG. I always considered it one of the most desirable types in general aviation, but it’s out of the budget range you have given and definitely out of mine too

Last Edited by blueline at 11 Sep 12:34
LOAN Wiener Neustadt Ost, Austria

The Comanche 250/260 with 90 gallon tanks is another possibility but I suspect you’d probably have to do your own panel upgrade to meet the whole spec. It occurs to me you could do that in the US on an N-registered plane and fly it back.

The Comanche 250/260 with 90 gallon tanks is another possibility but I suspect you’d probably have to do your own panel upgrade to meet the whole spec.

What about operating a Comanche off a grass strip? Any issues there? The grass strip I fly from is in fairly good condition but with some rolling ground. Nothing an Archer can’t handle.

Great Oakley, U.K. & KTKI, USA

What about operating a Comanche off a grass strip? Any issues there?

The honest answer is I don’t know about Comanches on grass strips. Maybe others would have some experience.

A good friend has had a really nice Comanche 180 for 20 years. It doesn’t go so fast as a 250 or 260 (150 mph cruise on a 300 hr O-360) and he’s having trouble selling it for anything over $30K USD. The experimental market has killed US demand for nice older retractables, and I think its an opportunity for the right buyers.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 11 Sep 13:28

You can not beat Mooneys for speed or range. They consistently deliver the greatest nm/gal in comparisons. And with some mods, even the older ones can get to a whopping 1800nm max range.

An older Bonanza might also be an option. They’re built solid and you can add tons of modifications as your needs expand.

Another thought is, if you’re willing to stretch just a tiny little bit further, is to get a Cessna P210. I saw one for $115K recently. If you plan on flying in the FL’s IFR, then pressurisation is a godsend. Since I upgraded to a pressurised plane, I can’t see myself ever going back. At least not for a tourer.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 11 Sep 13:57

The only one that can meet that spec will be an older Bonanza, with decent useful load.

They have the speed, TAS165 plus, load, 1250lbs, and are iconic……….

Some good buys in the States, and also some available here in Europe. Worth looking at.

Obviously other types can also meet aspects your spec, but there is generally a trade in speed.

Good luck..

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

Adam, you just beat me to it with the older Bonanza.

Space may be an issue in the Mooney, more in the Bo.

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

Another thought is, if you’re willing to stretch just a tiny little bit further, is to get a Cessna P210. I saw one for $115K recently. If you plan on flying in the FL’s IFR, then pressurisation is a godsend. Since I upgraded to a pressurised plane, I can’t see myself ever going back. At least not for a tourer.

The P210 is my ultimate plane. However, I understand they are very heavy for the horsepower due to all the extra weight of the pressurization related equipment. I would be concerned about operating it off of 750 metres of grass?

Richard Collins has some great Sportys videos of flying his P210 all over the US. Very capable airplane and I always wonder why they don’t fetch more on the used market?

Silver Eagle 210 – now there’s a serious plane!

Last Edited by JJBeall at 11 Sep 14:08
Great Oakley, U.K. & KTKI, USA

This is a really tricky one, because anybody who designs a 4-seater which can take 4 21st century (not WW2-era) adults with full fuel has achieved it simply by putting in tiny fuel tanks, and is an idiot

A TB20 can do it with four size 8 ladies, but if you can find four size 8 ladies (one with a PPL) then you won’t have time to be on the internet so won’t be reading this Personally I can think of just one that qualifies…

I see the 326kg of passengers plus 2.5hrs range plus a 1hr reserve, and the TB20’s 500kg payload would probably do that (174kg of avgas is how much?) but that is an awfully short range which will ensure that the moment the wx is not as forecast (especially with persistent wide area conditions like fog) things will very quickly turn to ***t. At the low speeds we fly at (150kt), 1hr is not enough unless you just do the Shoreham to Bembridge burger run. You need 2hr of reserve. Also I wouldn’t even dream of flying that tight without a fuel totaliser.

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Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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