What is it that prevents private pilots from venturing abroad?

The second one is “Cross border information – VFR ins Ausland” by a lady named Heike Schweigert. Available e.g. here Link

I got it from a friend who discarded it and looked at it. Main problem with books like that is that they are outdated the moment they roll off the printing press. While I would be careful to call it names, for myself they were not really very useful.

Don’t know what it is with the range of the Cirrus SR22. It is excellent.

Thanks for these figures. They make sense from what I heard of people who have one here. I’d really like to find some PDF-POH for them to add to my database.

Back on the discussion, it semms like “fear” is a dominant factor.

“Fear” is usually put in context with irrational behaviour. I would not call it that, but many of us who fly for recreation and fun need to take into account factors outside aviation which severely restrict us not only in aviation but basically in everything we do. Those who are free of such concerns, such as you seem to be, should consider themselfs lucky, but in todays working enviconment they get rare and far between.

It’s a hobby for modt of us and it is supposed to be fun. Many people seem to have fears in flying, but nevertheless don’t quit. A healthy portion of respect is what is needed, but fear not good.

You keep suggesting people should quit rather than addressing their concerns.I disagree. I think if there are concerns or even “fear” as you put it, they need to be addressed. Either by training, either by expanding your capabilities to match the mission, there are lots of better ways to deal with this stuff than simply tell people like that to get lost and take up gardening just because you take them for whimps. Actually, this is part of a function of forums like this here, to talk about things that concern us and see how to go about them.

Personally I see several factors which need to be addressed as part of the training process, but that process is not really geared towards that as Peter has repeatedly and correctly said here. The average school who does PPL training aims to train to the test requirements and to process as many students as possible instead of prepaing people for the actual thing most of them learn to fly for. I have yet to see one school who will actually talk to students about the harsh reality of European VFR flying and the limitations it faces primarily due to weather. Therefore, many new PPL’s set themselfs unrealistic goals on what to do with their PPL and end up either frustrated because they find out things don’t work that way and walk away or end up in accidents.

Another reason people may well deveöpü some irrational fears developed has a lot to do with the way the way that they are treated in flying clubs and often also in forums if they voice their concerns by some self-professed superpilots who take enormeous satisfaction in telling everyone how great they are but how everyone else is way to inferior to reach what they believe is their own standards. Thankfully, not being subjected to these club heroes has kept me largely away from such characters, but I’ve seen it enough that people would not fly to certain places because they had been told by their FI’s or flying buddies at the club that some things were too difficult and too dangerous for them, when in fact those giving the advice don’t know what the hell they are talking about themselfs.

At the same time, calling people who have concerns with particular aspects of flying simply whimps does not do them any service whatsoever but in fact is a very unprofessional and dangerous thing to do, particularly in aviation. It may well prompt people to do things they are uncomfortable with just to “prove” that they are no whimps and end up in very bad situations because of this.

My personal conclusion to my own problems with dispatch reliability has been to aim to revive my IR asap and to equip my plane accordingly. Thankfully I work together with real professionals in the flight training I do.

For a non IFR PPL, albeit with an IMCr, your average 2 or 3 hour flight certainly required more than that amount of time in VFR flight planning to exercise the flight safely. Not even considering the weather, even in France, there are large swathes of restricted, military or danger areas presenting obstacles laterally and vertically for a relatively simple flight. Personally, I enjoyed the challenge and logistics of that, and proud to execute safe flights. But even with the wonders of SD and ease of flight plan and other forms, it’s not quite a ‘jolly’ in the basic sense. You have to enjoy that side of ‘flying’

We seem to agree that “abroad” is not really a factor, but the length of a trip is. Especially so for those who fly VFR only, and I assume these are a majority among GA

Exactly. And there is also this thing called purpose, or simply why ? When living close to a border, “abroad” is really not an issue. I think it would be more helpful to discuss which elements makes it possible, or desirable to travel far. The ones I can think of are:

1. A fast and very comfy aircraft
2. Autopilot
3. IFR?
4. LOTS of spare time (you are either retired or have an account full of money so you don’t have to work, or you don’t like to work)
5. A wife that doesn’t care if you leave her when you aren’t working, or maybe she loves to fly (one in a million?)
6. Kids that don’t care if you are gone

LeSvig,

good analysis

4 is the one most of us struggle with most. I am lucky to have a wife who is “one in a million” and I am working to get 3 back.

As a UK PPL with modest flying experience (350 hours), I have to say that the one thing that helped my confidence about long-distance flying was getting my IMCr about four years ago. I know it’s not valid in Europe, but it allows me to get out of this little cloudy island in the first place, especially as I’m stuck under 2500’ class A airspace from north London to the coast. But far more importantly I know that, if I really had to, I could get down a continental ILS, so the consequences of finding myself stuck above low cloud would be less serious than death.

But I agree with previous posters: the greatest obstacle to foreign trips is the weather en route and understanding it properly. In particular, I have yet to find any reliable source for cloud tops. Knowing whether I had a good chance of VFR on top but below 10,000’ en route would make one hell of a difference. The other transformative factor is Sky Demon, with up-to-date trans-European charts and downloadable plates. With Sky Demon, a GNS430 (coupled to a primitive but operational single-axis autopilot) and uninterrupted radio contact with a FIR, I’ve managed and actually enjoyed VFR single-pilot operations as far south as the Pyrenees and east to Friedrichshafen, and I’ll be heading to Prague in a couple of months.

But there’s no doubt that it takes a lot of planning, and forums like these where pilots generously share experiences are an invaluable part of the process.

Sprucegoose I think your comments are really relevant. I have been flying for quite a few decades and also have a IR Restricted so am able to mostly go where and when I choose within reason. The biggest problem I find is IMC currency. For example where does one go to practise ILS approaches? I have a few thousand hours and am truly aware of the need to stay current. I am surrounded by RAF stations with all the navaids but even to just run down the ils for practise costs a great deal of money. I find this inexcusable when one considers we, the taxpayer, own these facilities yet the MOD have decided we must pay for them all over again. Peter has often highlighted the poor ATC services OCAS (not a dig at the controllers themselves BTW) so that is also a factor in deciding if one should go or stay. I believe in the big sky as far as collisions go but I feel more comfortable having someone on the ground also watching over me. In order to stay safe we must all practise. I agree wholeheartedly that SkyDemon is a huge advantage and is thye best I have had to date.

long distance = clouds.
northern Europe = icing
expensive hobby = lack of FIKI

I feel, that for half the year, it’s simply not possible to cover any material distance (and get back!) free of icing risk – unless one has exceptional weather knowledge. Its possible to get CAVOK for a good distance but after you’ve had dinner and a day or two on the beach, it’s mostly likely a front will be appearing. It’s easier to go for a 100nm burger run and come back same day. It’s likely my lack of experience but there is often a reason not to undertake a particular flight and a linear relationship between distance and weather effects.

DMEarc

If I may chip in, even though I’m not in Europe anymore?

Here in Australia (not abroad obviously, trans-Tasman crossings in a SEP are not for the faint of heart) we should be having much less issues with long flights: In the right season you get usually excellent VFR weather (and even in summer the thunderstorms usually start only in the afternoon), charts and ERSA are not too expensive and can be had electronically anyway (www.ozrunways.com $70 a year for the whole continent/country, they are expanding coverage to the rest of the world as well), language, customs and immigration are a non issue and most airports are quite welcoming to VFR traffic. For instance; at Gold Coast airport you pay less than half the parking fee for a C172 than you would for the family car, and a clearance into the class C airspace is a non issue if you file a flight plan (landing fee + nav charges around $25 I think).

However many people still don’t venture away from the familiar circuit, I would say the GF/Wife factor is the biggest one. Never mind the parachute but non-flyers seem to get a bit nervous about flying a 40 year old aircraft, especially if it looks its age (“We are going to fly at 8000ft in that!!??”). New AC can be rented of course, but they are usually pretty heavily utilized by the flying school, so they won’t let you take it for a week or even just a weekend and you pay a big premium. (banged up 40 your old C172M $200h, nicely done up C172N $250 and an IFR G1000 172SP for around $310p/h).
I reckon the retired guys who fly LSAs are the ones getting most of the long distance flying done, just don’t be in a hurry if you want to traverse the country in a Foxbat or a drifter (and pack light!).

As a newly licensed PPL with long leave periods suitable for flying I’m really making an effort not to fall into that trap, but I’m still looking around for better rental options (seeing the SID bill for a well maintained and reasonably nice looking C172 made me reconsider ownership for the time being).