C150 shortfield landings

I would expect a short field landing at 8mph to be very short indeed laterally but the vertical speed would be interesting - probably about 10000 feet per minute i.e. about 100kt

It would be the C150 version of AF447.

Interesting. This thing has been on the market for 55 years and no one has found the time to proof-read the manual yet :-)

Those that have tried it are not in a position to report...

"power off" ??? Surely they mean "engine running, at minimal power, i.e. idling" ??? Those who have, like myself, had the privilege, to see the prop stopping to real power off will confirm the difference! And I can't really imagine any POH recommending stopping the engine for landing!

Seeing this very poor wording, I would be VERY critical consulting the rest of this POH.

OTOH some reassurance can be found in [quote]land on the main wheels first[/quote] - there at least is a certain degree of authority in this document.

From the oldest 150 flight manual I have, which is 1966, the short field approach speed is 58MPH. If you have a flight manual which refers to "notches" of flap for a 150, it is older than that, as the 150 did away with manual flaps in the early '60's ('62 or '63 I think). The terms "power off" and "glide" approaches, seem to be used interchangeably, but "power off" seems to prevail through Cessna manuals. The 1997 128S still uses that term. The Caravan says "power set to idle", but then it is a turbine, it's a bit different.

The 150 is one of the shortest landing tricycle gear planes you'll find, though be careful, 'cause you can land and stop it easily in places too small for a takeoff in the same conditions. If you're doing any kind of landing in a single Cessna with me, it'll be nose held off upon touchdown, and through the entire landing rollout. This notion of letting the nose wheel carry the runway loads at some slower speed after touchdown is simply wrong and careless. The elevator has a tremendous affect even once on the ground. When it can no longer hold the nose up, you'll know.

One day, on a longish runway, when it's all to yourself, touch down the 150 with full flaps, hold the nose off with full up elevator when the speed is slow enough that doing so will not bang the tail (VERY MUCH - DON'T DO THAT ON HARD RUNWAYS!), add some power while you taxi along the runway. A little power will hold the nosewheel off, and the airplane steers very well on the rudder alone.

When you have tried that, and only on a grass runway for the sake of the tail tiedown ring internal structure, extend 15 degrees of flap (about the same as that aileron all the way down) hold the elevator full nose up, and add about 1800 RPM of power, you'll find that you can easily taxi with the nosewheel off. Don't bang the tail though, it's really bad for the plane.

The shortest approach you can make in a 150 will be with some power applied, and that power removed as you complete the flare. However, this is a really advanced technique, and likely to incur angry words from the aircraft provider, as if it quits while you're doing that, it will drop onto the ground hard, and nothing you can do will prevent that. The term for this is sometimes "dragging it in", which I would do for a precautionary landing on an uncertain surface, particularly if I thought I might go around from it. It is possible to fly a 150 with full flaps, and lots of power so slowly that when you touch, the tail tiedown ring touches before the mainwheels. Doing this (which I only did once) causes damage which must be repaired - but the plane can do it, if damage is inevitable anyway. It's about slow flight onto the ground.

Every landing I do is either a short field technique without the use of brakes unless needed, or a soft field technique, simply for the practice. Landing "regular" is easy, why practice that? Practice the challenge, and the rest comes extra easy!

This is one of the few areas I have knowledge in.......

My C182 has been modified for STOL operation and is now called a King Katmai. Canards, wing extensions, updated front strut and big tyres and brakes all help in STOL operations. The C150 in its standard form is a very good STOL performer by my Katmai is just astonishing. Stall speed is 31 knots, take off 200ft, landing 250 ft. It's all very easy except for the landing. My normal approach speed for short fields is 50-55 knots, but for really short fields and those with obstructions at each end like my home field you need full flaps and 45 knot approach speed or less if you are competent enough. At these speeds there are issues: The approach needs planning carefully and has to be performed as one sweeping movement with a little power and around a 400ft/minute descent rate at a constant speed of say 45 knots. You don't want a long final, there's too much to go wrong which usually is an undershoot which requires more throttle to drag you in. If you have undershot, go around. It's too difficult to get everything right when dragging in. The worst place to be is behind the power curve because you need so much power to arrest the descent the speeds again are difficult to control. The best place to be is just on or slightly behind the power curve in a slight nose up attitude in the right place. As you get near to touch down keep pulling into a full stall landing. Sounds easy but it's not. I'm OK at this, but not as proficient as some. I was lucky enough to have a day in Kansas with Todd Peterson in his King Katmai. He makes landing feel like a helicopter landing. His party trick on a tarmac runway admittedly is to land in around 100ft roll to the end of the runway. Gets to the numbers at the end as if to turn around and take off, but does not turn around and takes off between the numbers and the end of the runway. Don't try this at home!!! It's true of the C150 also, you will sink too quickly if you get well behind the power curve. The skill is to stay just on the power curve in a C150 which means a very short final. Everyone who has tried says its easier if you perform the sweeping descent I describe above (if ATC let you). Turn base at minimum speed at say 1000ft, less than half mile final. 400ft per minute not more, aim for the numbers and make base and final on curving descent. It works for me, ATC might not like it.

Yes, it is wise to be cautious with extreme operations as you gain skill. I encourage you to make every landing either short field or soft field technique, as described in the Flight Manual. You don't need to get extreme about it, but just practicing the way it's done will make you better faster. So often I'll be at a flight training airport, and what pilots who I believe are students plunking on, and rolling out, apparently happy to be on the ground. I just think to myself, a missed opportunity to practice more.

Every landing I fly in every aircraft is done with full flaps. You will hear many naysayers, stating that only use the flaps you need for the runway length, and don't use full flaps in a crosswind. I disagree with them. If you can't manage the plane with full flaps in a crosswind, you're not up to those conditions with any flap setting. While getting used to handling the plane full flaps, your skills will sharpen, and you'll be more gentle on the plane. And, if something bad is going to happen on the ground, it's going to happen more slowly - slower is better if things are going wrong (you're headed off the runway)!

You'll be told terrible things about going around with full flaps in a 150. They're not stellar, but they will go around, and climb out quite adequately with full flaps - or they would not be certified.