Ultranomad wrote:
One possible way AOPA (or another similar organisation) could possibly help with handling is to try making a deal with Hellenic CAA to grant self-handling approval to AOPA members who have taken proper training (e.g. from AOPA) and undertake to wear safety vests and be in continuous radio contact with GROUND while airside, observe all airport safety procedures, etc. If this deal is successful, it may even bring AOPA Hellas quite a bit of foreign membership.
There is legislation for Self Handling in Greece.
CAA in Greece does not make deals ;-)
There is legislation on Self Handling in Greece but it has so many requirements that basically as a private individual you must have the exact same prerequisites required for Ground Handling companies. Certified Training for apron work, certified Equipment, Insurance liabilities against third parties in huge numbers, accreditation of physical persons for apron access, CAA approval for the operation and the list goes on. Basically its a nice … midnight summer dream.
Its similar case with self refuel in Greece by bringing canisters from landside. The legislation exists. The implementation is hard due to the absurd requirements. Only a based operator/aeroclub may make it after hard work to convince the airport authority. As a casual visitor you can forget it.
As you understand all of the above legislation is nicely layed down so that, in practice, only the service providing companies can provide the service …
There’s no room for private individual self-services in the state or privatized airports.
petakas wrote:
Some information is wrong or missing there
Thank you for the corrections. Here is the link to the map and google table for editing:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jawWQkGo3-F4KyR5En95kN-H4foenzXN&usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y3X47QKuRRB-eE7UcwebnD8SKyMbkCzHAZNdz2rqi7Y/edit?usp=sharing
(feel free to please edit and ad info).
@peter Please remove the pdf link in my previous post.
[done – pointed to here]
Snoopy wrote:
(feel free to please edit and ad info).
That looks promising !
I can’t work on it now (busy) but I’m sure patient pilots checking it, or you, will find the time to update information based on the available resources.
They have to be pilots though because they are (only) the ones who know what information they need.
Regarding airport phone numbers: You can leave them in but I am not sure providing the airport phone numbers will help unless someone calls each one separately to confirm they are still valid. With the exception of Megara LGMG which has no handling, all airports require handling arrangement from pilot in advance and THEY are the local contact to prearrange things. You pay something more but you have your local “all in one” contact for anything you need before or during the trip.
Also another important tip to anyone reading such a map and thinking that’s all they need is : always check the NOTAMs of your destination. All essential information for Greek airports is posted in their respective ICAO code NOTAMs.
Also make sure you put a clear disclaimer somewhere that it is for initial planning purposes only and not to be considered as official aeronautical information.
You can enhance your map further by adding the ZZZZ strips of Greece which are widely used in Greece for light & ultralight aviation.
Because they are quite a few with tiny runways you could put in only the ones with more than (say) 500m runway length which is a good filter to separate ultralight only fields..
Info on ZZZZ strips can be found in www.aopa.gr/Info paragraph 37.
Thanks Petakas!
petakas wrote:
you put a clear disclaimer somewhere
I’m curious… it is google maps → would these hold legally if someone says he thought it was official aeronautical information? The data can be edited publicly, so even if I put a disclaimer in, it could be deleted by someone else.
The safe way would be to not share anything publicly, which beats the entire purpose of the internet.
I have just read in the AOPA magazine, that AOPA Greece made a big step forward in the fee discussion with the airfields in Greece. This I found on their website:
In March 2019 FRAPORT Greece changed their 2018 GA airport charges by making reductions ranging from 50% to 75%, going in to effect in April 2019. AOPA recognizes the efforts made by Fraport Greece and welcomes the new pricelist.
FRAPORT and AOPA Hellas will continue this mutual understanding collaboration in an effort to achieve more results on remaining GA issues like, parking space availability and ground handling agents’ procedures.
That sounds good. Thanks to our AOPA colleagues in Greece.
[ post moved to existing thread ]
Peter wrote:
they told me all flights need a slot, including VFR, which is obviously nonsense.
Why would that be nonsense ? Spanish airports have done that in the past during extremely busy times and/or special events. Caught me out once in Valencia.
Maybe by “slots” they meant PPR.
Looks like it was a language issue from a handling company employee who could not tell the difference between SLOT (as we pilots know it for IFR flights) and PPR which just has to do with parking and the ramp occupancy days/times.
One needs to read back up this and other threads.
The “slotted” or “coordinated” airports (which are most or all of the Fraport-takeover ones, plus a few non-Fraport ones like Sitia LGST) state that the slots are for IFR traffic.
I was told by the handler at Samos LGSM that they need to issue a slot for all flights, but as Petakas suggests he was probably confusing these slots with a general PPR requirement.
The system is a bit vague at times. In 2018 I went to huge trouble to arrange slots at LGST but they couldn’t care less. Just as well since their email wasn’t working 
Also I don’t think the situation for Z or Y flights was ever clarified… specifically how far back do you have to cancel IFR on the way in, etc…
eddsPeter wrote:
I have just read in the AOPA magazine, that AOPA Greece made a big step forward in the fee discussion with the airfields in Greece. This I found on their website:In March 2019 FRAPORT Greece changed their 2018 GA airport charges by making reductions ranging from 50% to 75%, going in to effect in April 2019. AOPA recognizes the efforts made by Fraport Greece and welcomes the new pricelist.
FRAPORT and AOPA Hellas will continue this mutual understanding collaboration in an effort to achieve more results on remaining GA issues like, parking space availability and ground handling agents’ procedures.That sounds good. Thanks to our AOPA colleagues in Greece.
Just visited LGRP (Rodos) airport for the second time and the price reduction compared to my first visit wasn’t as high as announced. The total was 267 euro including VAT (see the attached invoice for details). My first visit was in February, and the total was about 308 euro. I wouldn’t call it a substantial reduction.
