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Insurance companies, premiums, exclusions, etc

ivark wrote:

I have to switch insurance provider also. I used Beta Aviation, but they end their aviation business, so have to switch. I managed to get a quote from “GrECo International AG / HDI Global Specialty SE Sverige filial” , 840 EUR for liability + hull, quite similar that Beta’s was.

HDI is a major insurance provider in Sweden and they are well regarded. There was a case five years ago when a club owned PA32R, overloaded with CG out of limits, and on an illegal charter flight (no CPL, no AoC), got airborne in ground effect on takeoff from a 560 m grass runway and then crashed. There were several “interesting” aspects including the fact that the takeoff roll started with a 360° turn on the runway. The pilot claimed that the speed gained during this turn was equivalent to 100-150 m acceleration on the runway!

HDI payed the club in full without discussion but then, of course, went after the pilot. I believe the pilot’s liability was eventually established in court.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

I think Haywards are a very good company, but when one is looking at four figures, most people will shop around.

Yes, they are good but are a broker so have no real influence on premiums.

EGTK Oxford

A broker can influence premiums, by shopping around. He’s supposed to do that anyway on behalf of his clients. Well, he’s supposed to recommend the most suitable policy for the client’s needs…

In the context of light GA, are there any insurers who are not brokers?

The pilot claimed that the speed gained during this turn was equivalent to 100-150 m acceleration on the runway!

Shall we start a thread on that technique?

HDI payed the club in full without discussion but then, of course, went after the pilot. I believe the pilot’s liability was eventually established in court.

This may be UK insurance law specific, but they cannot do that if the pilot is a named insured on the insurance policy. I think this aspect is not known to most renters, who think they are insured, but actually it is the school/club which is insured, and the insurer can then go after all other parties to recover some money.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

47
A broker can influence premiums, by shopping around. He’s supposed to do that anyway on behalf of his clients. Well, he’s supposed to recommend the most suitable policy for the client’s needs…

Yes but globally the number of underwriters for GA or indeed aviation a whole is a handful – many have left the industry. So there are actually few underwriters for them to go to. Given what I have seen in the heavier end of GA, the situation is terrible for those wanting insurance now and this will eventually roll down to smaller aircraft.

EGTK Oxford

What is driving this? Excessive claims?

I don’t think the insurers are losing money There was a time about 40 years ago when vehicle insurers suddenly realised they had for decades been losing money on motorbikes. They were insuring a 1000cc Vincent for maybe £50… Suddenly premiums went up several times. That was just actuarial stupidity. I don’t believe this is the case in GA; they must have known the business case.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Yes a huge number of claims from light GA to Boeing 737Max. Also the current ground risk many have had further hurts earnings. Has caused many underwriters to leave the industry. Hence less competition and as a result the hardest insurance market in 25 years.

Last Edited by JasonC at 14 Jun 19:11
EGTK Oxford

Where is the evidence of lots of light GA claims?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Where is the evidence of lots of light GA claims?

No idea. I am not an actuary. Just what me and many others are being told by those in the industry. In some ways though light GA accidents don’t matter. If aviation books are losing money, we all suffer no matter who is at fault.

EGTK Oxford

Peter wrote:

This may be UK insurance law specific, but they cannot do that if the pilot is a named insured on the insurance policy. I think this aspect is not known to most renters, who think they are insured, but actually it is the school/club which is insured, and the insurer can then go after all other parties to recover some money.

My point is that the insurance company payed even though the flight was illegal in several different ways before it even began, including that the pilot wasn’t properly licensed for the operation. Some of these illegalities (although not the licensing) materially contributed to the accident, There have been frequent claims here on EuroGA that insurance is void in such cases.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 14 Jun 20:04
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

JasonC wrote:

In some ways though light GA accidents don’t matter.

Years ago our club planes used to be somehow insured together with the LH airline fleet. And the insurance guy told me each year the claims on the big planes had been low, the club claims a bit high but overall it was ok so they just continue. But I think that was before the Airbus hit the mountain :-(

This year around new year we did manage to renew at the same price than last year but usually it would have gone down a bit due to higher time in type etc. But that did not work this time. Having said that I was always happy with the insurance rates we got. Roughly 1% of the insured value does not seem a lot if you see how expensive small things like prop strikes, runway excursions etc. can get.

www.ing-golze.de
EDAZ
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