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Moving from N-reg to EASA-reg, and EASA acceptance of FAA modifications

More and more here in the UK we see pressure coming from EASA to ‘drive out’ N registrations.
The idea of putting our Arrow IV on the G-reg has been talked about.
We know it can be done, but the ‘cost’ is what we are interested in, along with paperwork and of cause the re-lettering.
I suspect the big problem is compliant with EASA specification, and with an old aircraft that may have had N Reg ‘things’ done to it – this could be substantial
I’m sure EASA won’t just say “it’s on the N, we’ll just take it on ‘as is’.
Any views / experience would be appreciated.

Regret no current medical
Was Sandtoft EGCF, North England, United Kingdom

What do you think they are doing to N-reg aircraft (separate from the pilot licencing side)? I can see no reason to move an aircraft to the G-reg unless related to some sort of commercial operation.

EGTK Oxford

Exactly. There is zero pressure or difficulty in operating a private N-reg. here in Germany.

What is it the makes you believe so?

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

The only problem from the licensing side, that I can see maintaining the aircraft on the N-reg, is that the UK-licensed pilots who want to fly the aircraft outside of the UK need at least a FAA 61.75 PPL-A SEL.

Actually the problem you may encounter after April 2016 is that a FAA licensed pilot residing in Europe will no longer be allowed to exercise the privileges of his license in European airspace. But moving the aircraft to G-reg will not solve that issue

So just as JasonC, I am curious about this statement:

we see pressure coming from EASA to ‘drive out’ N registrations

Could you share what these pressures are?

LFPT, LFPN

I might be able to add to this. The advice I’ve been given is :

There is now an agreement between EASA and the FAA such that and N-Reg aircraft which are resident in the UK (or Europe) will be subject to both FAA and EASA rules for licencing, airworthiness, and maintenance. There is a reciprocal agreement for G-Reg aircraft based in the US – not that there will be many of those !

The implications for owners of UK-based N-registered aircraft are :

1. To fly 36E in UK or European airspace under VFR conditions pilots will need both an EASA full PPL and a FAA piggy-back licence (rather than just an EASA licence as at the moment)
2. To fly 36E in UK or European airspace under IFR conditions pilots will need both an EASA IR and a FAA IR (rather than just an FAA IR as at the moment)
3. The aircraft maintenance regime may need to comply with EASA rules (eg. 50-hour checks, 6-year prop overhauls etc.) in addition to FAA rules.

If like me you are a UK-based pilot with an EASA licence, IMC rating and FAA piggy-back but wanting to fly IR in Europe, it’s just become a whole lot more difficult/expensive in an N-reg aircraft. So the question of transferring to G-reg becomes relevant . . . however, again my understanding as follows:

To transfer an N reg aircraft onto the G register, all modifications made to the aircraft need to be reviewed by EASA for type approval (in my case that probably means a GNS430 and Garmin GTX330 transponder. If these were done under STCs then it’s a lot of paperwork and expense; if they were done as Field upgrades then it’s horrendous, and potentially very expensive as apparently EASA are being very uncooperative on this stuff. Add to this the cost of removing the ELT and getting the registration re-painted, and the estimate I’ve had is in the region of £8k-£10k to transfer onto the G-reg.

WarleyAir, does that cover it ?

I would read the pros and cons here

There is now an agreement between EASA and the FAA such that and N-Reg aircraft which are resident in the UK (or Europe) will be subject to both FAA and EASA rules for licencing, airworthiness, and maintenance. There is a reciprocal agreement for G-Reg aircraft based in the US – not that there will be many of those !

REFERENCE, PLEASE @Schilke

Pilots needs FAA papers but the aircraft is not affected (privately operated, non AOC obviously).

To transfer an N reg aircraft onto the G register, all modifications made to the aircraft need to be reviewed by EASA for type approval (in my case that probably means a GNS430 and Garmin GTX330 transponder. If these were done under STCs then it’s a lot of paperwork and expense; if they were done as Field upgrades then it’s horrendous, and potentially very expensive as apparently EASA are being very uncooperative on this stuff.

The most recent info I have seen is that EASA accepts FAA Field Approvals. I can’t find it now but there may be some references here

But for sure any registry transfer is a can of worms and should not be undertaken lightly. My article (above) lists various examples of what can go wrong.

More and more here in the UK we see pressure coming from EASA to ‘drive out’ N registrations.

That is incorrect information. There is no such known pressure. I have references in my above link on 2004/2005 attempts but they have come to nothing.

I would not move an N-reg to G-reg unless there was an operationally pressing reason, and the only obvious one I can think of is that you are forming a syndicate of say 5 pilots and none of the 5 are willing or able to obtain FAA pilot papers. But in most cases I would just buy another plane…

Minor reasons are being located where there is no A&P/IA available. This is fine in the UK but some countries are short of them (Greece is one, but Greece has other issues with non-EASA-regs).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Schilke wrote:

3. The aircraft maintenance regime may need to comply with EASA rules (eg. 50-hour checks, 6-year prop overhauls etc.) in addition to FAA rules.

Seriously.
Where did this suddenly come from???
So we do our Annual with an FAA A&P I/A, he signs it off, then you just fly away to a EASA shop and do the whole thing again……..
Cant wait to see that rule come through.

spirit49
LOIH

Cant wait to see that rule come through.

Only if you are a Part M company

Where did this suddenly come from???

It doesn’t exist.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Thanks for your incredulity Peter and spirit49, it matches mine when I heard this stuff. However it did come from an FAA A&P I/A and CFII so I can’t just ignore it . . .

BTW Peter, the ‘driving out N-reg’ comment did not come from me, although I do sometime sympathise with the sentiment.

However it did come from an FAA A&P I/A and CFII

Sadly, I have never met an FAA A&P/IA/CFII who knew much about the current European regs. Not a single one. And I know two of them personally

Most aircraft mechanics (EASA66 included) don’t read the better informed forums (=EuroGA ) and when it comes to the more obscure stuff they live in their own little bubble.

And, to be fair, there has always been a massive amount of bullsh*t circulating around GA. I have been hanging around since July 2000 and have heard just about everything… It is spread by the usual N-reg haters

  • flying schools (they don’t make money from the FAA scene)
  • maintenance firms (mostly likewise)
  • certain individuals in the national CAAs (likewise)
  • certain individuals inside EASA (likewise)
  • pilots and instructors who like to look important while propping up the airport bar (quite a few of those)

To make things worse, EASA publishes documents which

  • almost nobody knows where to find them
  • when they find them, almost nobody can read the sheer volume of them
  • the changes are published in amendments and supplements (which most people don’t know where to find)

I think you should send your A&P to EuroGA

My view, FWIW, is that EASA spent so much political capital on their anti N-reg move (via EASA FCL – the dual papers requirement) that they don’t have the stomach to do any more in that department. Even their move to subject EASA Complex (5700kg+, MET, 18+ seats, etc) to Part M oversight has been quietly dropped. It would have shafted King Airs and all bizjets while letting off the TBM and the PC12, so the motivation (which could be alleged) was pretty obvious.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
88 Posts
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