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EASA Journey Log requirements

I would think that a plane does not need a journey log per ICAO treaty for any flight that does not cross an international border, regardless of G, D or N registration or the single country where the flight occurs.

Certainly for the purposes of this thread, it seems to me that a D-registered aircraft conducting a flight within Germany would not be required by ICAO to have a journey log showing PIC.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 28 Jan 17:37

Silvaire wrote:

Certainly for the purposes of this thread, it seems to me that a D-registered aircraft conducting a flight within Germany would not be required by ICAO to have a journey log showing PIC.

Not due to ICAO, that’s clear – but it would need that log due to EASA regulation Part NCO….

Germany

Interesting that part NCO expanded beyond ICAO treaty, presumably to match some European national governments pre-existing regs, or maybe I suppose through simple incompetence.

I have an old Bordbuch for my aircraft, the last entry was in 1971. It’s interesting historically, but I would never maintain such a document for the aircraft in 2020.

Peter wrote:

If [the registered keeper of a vehicle used to commit a road traffic offence] does not co-operate in revealing the driver at the time, he gets busted

Likewise the owner of a US-registered aircraft will be deemed by FAA to have been the aircraft operator if it is not possible to identify the person who operated or piloted the aircraft. See post 129 of 1 Mar 2019 in the thread PA46 Malibu N264DB missing in the English Channel.

London

Silvaire wrote:

Interesting that part NCO expanded beyond ICAO treaty, presumably to match some European national governments pre-existing regs, or maybe I suppose through simple incompetence.

Nothing at all to do with incompetence. ICAO treaty sets minimum standards that need tp be fulfilled by all members – but it is still in the responsibilities of individual CAAs (or the EASA for Europe) to go beyond that. Even the US FAA goes beyond bare ICAO standards in many areas.

Actually such a journey log is quite useful if used correctly – and far away from “I’d never maintain” imho. Especially if planes are used several different pilots.
You could enter irregularities. Many owners document how much fuel and/or oil they have filled in. You can immediately see if the plane has been on the ground for 3 months (and adjust your preflight accordingly). If there is something suspicious (or something missing) you can look up the last pilot and talk to him about it, etc…
So beyond the use that is discussed here (a binding document stating the PIC in case of a transgression) which is only a minor use case in my eyes, it’s quite useful.

And – excuse my French – “I’ve never seen that and done that – therefore it must be a sign of incompetence if someone else does this” is a very [ derogatory comment on a particular country removed – we would have ww3 on EuroGA if you had named another one closer to home ]

Germany

I can keep track of my aircraft’s irregularities just fine all on my own without a regulation to force me to do so, for review by government at its request.. Oddly enough, I don’t see government as my partner in tracking oil consumption…

My plane has been flown by one other pilot, once, since 2010.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 28 Jan 20:00

Silvaire is 100% right; logging requirements here are just absurd. Especially when you consider you also have to fill in aircraft logs in addition to your pilot log and journey log at the end of the days flying (which for a lot of privately owned planes making at most one flight a day, essentially means after every flight).

Andreas IOM

I am sure I posted this before but the obvious Q is: what is the point?

If someone is doing some dodgy flight, they are hardly going to log it.

It’s like expecting someone to fill in a Gendec with “terrorist” as the occupation.

The only explanation I can think of is that the legal requirement for a journey log sets up an “entrapment framework” whereby if they cannot bust you for the flight which they can prove you did, but they think (but can’t prove) it was illegal, they can bust you for not having logged it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

AFAIUI the ICAO annexes are a set of norms and recommended practices rather than a set of regulations. Each responsible authority (CAA) signs up to these or not.Some also get derogations from the norms and recommended practices. These then become the regulations. The reason behind this AIUI is because during the creation of the Convention of Chicago, countries in particular UK and USA could not agree on a set of regulations.
It would be funny if the UK now decided to adopt USA regulations.
As far as journey logs go I just do the paperwork that is required by the person or company or club from which I rent an aircraft.
When I was part of a syndicate I just followed the paperwork which had been started before I joined.It doesn’t take long and doesn’t impinge on my flying, so I’m not going to get concerned about it enough to making derogatory or conspiratorial comments about the law makers.

France

In addition to the logs recorded by various public domain ADSB trackers, my simple airplane’s navigation systems keep at least three automatic journey logs.

So NO, I flatly refuse to squander my time and the planet’s resources by scribing the same information on paper like some filthy medieval wretch in an Umberto Eco novel.

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom
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