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Scud Running

1500m is really not very far ahead at 100mph, its even less at a 120kt.

Sorry if this is a daft question, but why do you want to fly that fast in poor viz under low cloud? Is 120 kt really the slowest your airplane can fly?

Why not slow down to 1.3 Vso, with flap?

In any ordinary GA airplane (not a CAP 232 or some FIKI rocket-ship), 1.5 km is around 45 seconds flying time. It surely doesn’t take the dullest among us that long to glance up from our iPad/Facebook/Snapchat, gawp out of the front window, and take our hands out of our pockets.

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom

Jacko wrote:

Why not slow down to 1.3Vso, with flap?

Yes one has to leave +120kts cruise and rate 1 turns for flying above MSA, on published IAP or under AutoPilot

Flying pattern/circuit speed for straight and level cruise is not only about buying time, but it achieves “max manoeuvrability, max available power and max stability”, on any SEP will do that straight and level at about 1.3*VS0 on roughly 40% of power:
- You can land if you wish (cut power/dirty config), you climb at max rate (full power/config) and can make tight turns (about 38deg)
- You can play with controls all over the place without anything bad happening (you are deep inside the envelope)
- You can just trim and let it go, it will take 1 minute before you will feel it will kill you

About there one has enough margins from ceiling/terrain/envelope and max available performance, if one can’t stay alive with that then surely they picked the wrong day to fly faster or slower

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

A point maybe you will all already know, is that obstacle hazards are constantly changing. This means relying on your chart/skydemon/garmin/foreflight at low level does not depict all the obstacle hazards. The reason being is Hand Amendments to the chart. In Ireland the IAA brought out a new chart a few months back. There are 72 hand amendments to the chart. They are mostly masts and wind turbines. So if you want to scud run here using your favourite chart/gps be aware unless you have noted these hand amendments, there are 72 things you are missing out on. A DIY let down into your home base if something I constantly practice, in VMC. I’ve drawn it on Google Earth, have all the points saved and target heights for each fix. You have a much better chance in your local area than you do away from home.

The fixed-wing guys are only second fiddle to the commercial helicopter guys, who have to have DIY approaches to get into all sorts of spots with VIPs on demanding schedules. The good guys make all their money in the fog when nobody else will fly. Usually ex-military guys. If you want to see the sort of skill they have there is a video on YouTube of the Hereford Gun Club (British SAS) hovering over a mountain road in fog.

Buying, Selling, Flying
EISG, Ireland

That said, they aren’t immune, as the crash of N72EX recently reminded us.

tmo
EPKP - Kraków, Poland

WilliamF wrote:

A DIY let down into your home base if something I constantly practice, in VMC. I’ve drawn it on Google Earth, have all the points saved and target heights for each fix. You have a much better chance in your local area than you do away from home.

Only reason why I would flew low VFR in marginal weather, usually cloud break on nearby ILS and 6min to home base…

tmo wrote:

That said, they aren’t immune, as the crash of N72EX recently reminded us.

I think slow flying speeds and precautionary landing capabilities that matters for helicopters, I don’t think they are good to fly IFR at 130kts for 1h en-route in SVMC, the physics and results are the same as fixed-wings even in the hands of most skilled rotary pilots (e.g. same human factor, same geometry and same crash G-force…)

My guess with scud running is that there are not that many good backcountry pilots who fly instruments and vice versa, and even if they are their aircraft will not the risk of this is mainly GA where you have: in one hand IR rated pilots learned IFR flying from BA captains doing IAP on 5km international runway above MSA in the other hand you have backcountry pilots who fly STOL vintage in sunny days and don’t fly when the blue sky has one fluffy cloud, let alone been into one and are always bellow cloud-base but in the middle you have IR rated pilots who now fly from a VFR only 600m airstrip with a shinny fast touring machine, sticking to one camp during planning is the safest option but if you decide to change camp while flying at least change the whole mindset…

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

WilliamF wrote:

A DIY let down into your home base if something I constantly practice, in VMC. I’ve drawn it on Google Earth, have all the points saved and target heights for each fix. You have a much better chance in your local area than you do away from home.

Tell that to the crew and passengers of this Cessna Citation which was using a DIY let down into their own base in Trier. Considering the proximity of Hahn with it’s full range of services, why didn’t the owner value his life more, trusting to get into a foggy home base than pay for a taxi ride home…..

EDL*, Germany

Indeed, but that guy was pretty crazy trying it in something close to zero-zero. There will always be somebody doing something really crazy.

The trick is doing this safely, and I think it is worth discussing how one could do that.

Scud running is done in VMC

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Steve6443 wrote:

Tell that to the crew and passengers of this Cessna Citation which was using a DIY let down into their own base in Trier. Considering the proximity of Hahn with it’s full range of services, why didn’t the owner value his life more, trusting to get into a foggy home base than pay for a taxi ride home…..

I can only fly my own aeroplane. What other people do is up to them. How do you think the helicopters appear with VIP’s at the back of their houses, at grouse shoots, in their factory carpark? I’ve never seen one scud run at nought foot six and hop the hedge to land. They have their own approaches and the pilots practice religiously in VMC. People do crash yes, but it’s an everyday practice all around the world.

Buying, Selling, Flying
EISG, Ireland

As pax in the back seat of a car, January, dusk, poor vis, north on the A9, with little traffic, the driver was braking and about to deliberately leave the road to avoid the single headlamp coming straight for us when I shouted “Helicopter”.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

the other hand you have backcountry pilots who fly STOL vintage in sunny days and don’t fly when the blue sky has one fluffy cloud

I’ve never met such a person. People who fly off-airport in the UK (i.e. using a plane as personal transport), need to fly in cloud, above cloud and, where appropriate, below cloud.

one hand IR rated pilots learned IFR flying from BA captains doing IAP on 5km international runway

Those I do recognise. They say don’t do this, don’t do that, but every so often one of them dies or has a prang doing precisely what he says others shouldn’t. Heads in sand, asses in the air. They don’t even practice stuff like landing with a moderate tailwind or falling leaf, or whatever. Like the rest of us, they’re not much cop at doing what they don’t practice and half of them, though not at all stupid, aren’t ready for the increase in airspeed as they flare into ground effect with a tailwind. So they touch down 200 m down the runway…

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom
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