Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Filing IFR in VMC if not IR rated

In the uk, a PPL could log IFR time by flying in accordance with instrument flight rules. Non radio too

See previous threads on the 50hrs of IFR time required for the CB IR conversion for example.

Maybe it has changed but only very recently.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In Gernany you may fly departures and arrivals including an ILS approach in VMC as long as you ask for a “practice”. I regularly ask for a practice ILS approach on my home airport to save me the cumbersome VFR reporting points and pattern. Or I ask radar to provide me with vectors.

ATC then asks you to maintain VMC at all times and “all headings are suggestions”.

Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

Peter wrote:

In the uk, a PPL could log IFR time by flying in accordance with instrument flight rules. Non radio too

I guess you are referring to the fact that in class G airspace, you can fly “self-declared” IFR in VMC without a flightplan and log that as IFR time. (And not only in the UK.)

But as FCL.600 clearly states, that’s illegal if you don’t have an IR or are in training. If someone don’t bother about being illegal when it comes to choosing flight rules, he could just as well fake the logbook entries. That’s just as illegal, but would save the flight time.

With a UK NPPL, it might be possible. I wouldn’t know.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 10 Jun 15:26
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

It changed in the UK when EASA licences were required, that is also why the UK novelty of requiring IFR at Night was changed to permit Night VFR for PPL holders. An NPPL is day VFR only. The answer for the CB IR is to get an IMCR and build IFR time that way,

Now retired from forums best wishes

Airborne_Again wrote:

But as FCL.600 clearly states, that’s illegal if you don’t have an IR or are in training. If someone don’t bother about being illegal when it comes to choosing flight rules, he could just as well fake the logbook entries. That’s just as illegal, but would save the flight time.

Surely this is not correct, if it is then the IR(R) would be a comlete waste of time except to help pilots “get out of trouble” so to speak. I have such a rating and use it in earnest and have never had a problem in any class D airspace. Yes my aircraft is fully IFR compliant and I believe so am I except for Class B and Class A airspace. Hope so anyway.

UK, United Kingdom

The UK makes use of an Article 4 in Aircrew Regulation that allows national authorities to issue an authorisation for IFR flight without an IR in their airspace – hence the IMCR has continued – see background in the IN linked below

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/InformationNotice2015009.pdf

[ local copy ]

Now retired from forums best wishes

In the uk, a PPL could log IFR time by flying in accordance with instrument flight rules.

That was true for a UK National PPL, but was not true for a JAA or EASA PPL where IFR is specifically forbidden unless the pilot holds an Instrument qualification or is under training for one.

Peter wrote:

In the uk, a PPL could log IFR time by flying in accordance with instrument flight rules.

What are we talking about? Plain old PPL or IMCR? Annex II or not?

Airborne_Again wrote:

With a UK NPPL, it might be possible. I wouldn’t know.

My interpretation is that you would need an Annex II aircraft. National law can allow it for those.

Fenland_Flyer wrote:

Surely this is not correct

For IMCR, UK uses Article 4 point 8 of regulation 1178/2011 which means you essentially have an IR, but restricted to the privileges of IMCR (that is how I understand it). So IMCR holders (with an EASA licence with IR(R)) do meet that requirement. This will (or is supposed to) disappear in a few years (4/2019).

PS: Again “A” in parentheses disappeared. It was meant to be after that IR in the last paragraph.

Last Edited by Martin at 10 Jun 21:11

I do it often. In Belgium almost no airport ( Ebaw, ebos, ebci, Eblg) will refuse you.

I do file VFR, but I just ask on thé radio to practice ifr procedure under vfr. They all understand and nobody refused yet- they are all very helpfull. Mostly I use EBLG, but also the others are on the same Line.

Vie
EBAW/EBZW

There is another aspect to this: does flying an IAP imply you are IFR?

We had a thread on it a long time ago but I can’t find it.

That was true for a UK National PPL, but was not true for a JAA or EASA PPL where IFR is specifically forbidden unless the pilot holds an Instrument qualification or is under training for one.

How did night flight work given that night=IFR, in the UK until recently?

Loads of people used to log IFR time on JAR-FCL PPLs like mine

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top