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UK GAR form discussion, and UK border police procedures

flybymike wrote:

Does any of this bloody paperwork and form filling actually achieve any purpose?

In the case of the CTA (UK/Eire/CI/IOM), absolutely none at all. It’s completely pointless and draconian to boot. They are also singling out aviation for this special treatment, boat owners don’t have to do any of this for the CTA (at least between the Isle of Man and UK) and car owners between NI/Eire can come and go as they please, while someone flying a 450kg microlight barely able to lift two people over the same border have to tell the police 12 hours in advance.

Added to that it puts further pressure on pilots to complete flights in questionable weather.

Last Edited by alioth at 13 Jun 14:21
Andreas IOM

Does any of this bloody paperwork and form filling actually achieve any purpose?

They claim it provides them with movement data on persons they want to watch and who don’t want to risk travelling under a false ID (which is dangerous).

The airlines deliver the data electronically.

How boats fit in with this theory I don’t know but they are quite slow and thus inconvenient.

Obviously it is a job protection scheme for the least busy police officers.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

They claim it provides them with movement data on persons they want to watch and who don’t want to risk travelling under a false ID (which is dangerous).

In which case, why the 12 hour requirement for the CTA? Surely a notification would be sufficient.

Andreas IOM

It takes that long to check the fax machine has paper in it

Seriously, my guess is to give their “roaming squads” time to organise the visit(s) based on, ahem, “intelligence”. The local squad (here, the same officers do all GAR stuff, CTA and non-CTA) told me there are 82 farm strips just in Sussex, and while most are used for purely local bimbles, they do get a stream of GARs from these, and need time to work out where to drive.

As to whether 12-24hrs is mathematically defensible, I have no idea. I am sure they would absolutely hate to have it chopped down.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@Martin – very helpful. I read that official document but somehow missed that part of it. Thank you. (I wish Skydemon could list the nearest inbound Customs & Excise airports each time I am inbound- much better than having to check the list each time.)

@AnthonyQ thank you. I’ll note the number.

@dublinpilot I think your stories epitomise the nonsense that we GA pilots have to suffer. We have porous borders all over the place in the UK, and drugs reportedly brought in by boat all the time, but 100 pilots flying to France and back apparently represents a massive security risk for the UK. Hmm. I don’t think so. Anyway, some of us will visit you in prison if ever that happens, so don’t worry.

@Peter if you read them carefully, I think you’ll find that the regulations say that you have to send two messages by fax if you intend to use that medium for the transmission of a GAR : the first fax is to forewarn UK Border Force to put paper in their machine, and the second fax is the GAR itself :D

Flying a TB20 out of EGTR
Elstree (EGTR), United Kingdom

IMHO the reason @dublinpilot gets so much attention on his trips is because the UK police up where he often flies have very little to do. Up there, most girls are pushing a pram and have another one on the way so the nightlife is probably not too exhausting either

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

flybymike wrote:

Does any of this bloody paperwork and form filling actually achieve any purpose?

It allows you to cross an otherwise controlled international border departing or arriving anywhere and without paying for that privilege. It may not be the best system, but in many European countries pilots would love to have anything like GAR.

Hajdúszoboszló LHHO

I usually cross european borders (by any means of transportation) and barely taking notice of it, the UK being an exception, especially when travelling by GA

EDLE

GAR and GENDEC?

Friday I flew from Rotterdam to Oxford. As usual I filed a GAR (online in this case).

This time borderpolice came to the aircraft and asked me for the gar document.. Which I ended up emailing to his personal government email. He explained to me that this was part of new stricter bordersecurity.

On my flight back I did the same. Now they were waitining for me and were asking for a gendec. They were very sure you had to file a gendec for flights from the UK to the Netherlands..

In the past I was told that you had to file a gendec for guernsey/jersey .. But never for the UK.

This would mean that all the british pilots leaving the uk not only file a GAR but also a Gendec??

My guess is that the Border Force guy on departure used the term losely, and referred to the UK GAR, when saying “GenDec”. (On the fact, he was probably still wrong, since, as you say, from the UK side, you don’t need to file one for leaving the UK to NL and there is no regulation to say otherwise. But heck, sometimes these days, authorities just invent something new without bothering about publishing anything about it.. ).

In the past I was told that you had to file a gendec for guernsey/jersey .. But never for the UK.

Well, no. You didn’t have to file a Gendec for the UK authorities. Only a GAR (with the infamous 12-hour leadtime). You had to file a GenDec for the CI authorites.

How was it resolved then? Did they let you depart nevertheless, or did you have to do some paperwork?

Plus, then there is the new requirement or a GenDec from the Dutch side. Did you file one for them? Maybe they knew about that new rule and they were for some reason referring to the Durch requirement? Anyway, I agree, it’s getting a mess these days.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 31 Jul 11:08
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany
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