Not really, I’m afraid… like with so many other things that some “local” authorities handle more restrictively than intended.
Still, Stephan should have asked the ATCO what that “overriding national regulation” was. Don’t have the Spanish AIP at hand right now, but should look what e.g. ENR 1.1 (General Rules) and ENR 1.2 (Visual Flight Rules) say about SVFR.
The explanation is, more or less, I don’t remember exactly the details, that a SVFR is treated like IFR and in that case, the clearance and control shall be given by APP (not by TWR). Since LELL has no CTR, Barcelona cannot legally give service to traffic departing from / getting to LELL.
I know that, even if I don’t remember the details and probably the above is not 100% technically correct, because in LECU we had the same problem. After some meetings with the airport direction and the company providing ATC services, it was agreed to solve that and to provide SVFR clearances for LECU, with formal delegation from MADRID APP responsibility to LECU TWR . Now it is published in LECU AIP info.
LELL main operators should try to force something similar.
That’s an interesting thought. On the other hand, thinking this through, SVFR means you get take off in bad weather but you are not flying IFR and still need to obtain a proper IFR clearance. In the case of LELL you want to climb to get away from the mountains.
Much better is the concept of giving out a proper IFR clearance to pilots while they are still on the ground.
One should think about the problem being solved: I have an IFR flight planned and I want to go somewhere. For that I need to climb up to my cruising altitude and turn into the direction of my destination. I don’t want to fly for the sake of flying. If the airfield has been deemed “IFR”, then someone has created a predefined flight path for aircrafts leaving the field. I get a clearance to use it and separation is maintained. With a US-style IFR clearance with a void time I continue to be responsible for my initial flight path, which means not hitting anything continues to be my own responsibility. The upside is that I can use the performance of my aircraft to my advantage as I have been cleared to enter CAS already. All that chit-chat and waiting game with “request to pick up IFR” is unsafe as it causes a delay and keeps people low.
boscomantico wrote:
I would be pretty sure that is a flawed interpretation. Of course, the reg must say “may”, because ATC has to be able
to exercise their discretion based on traffic volumes and other factors.But it doesn’t give an ATC unit the right to say “we don’t do SVFR here”. If there is no other traffic about, they have no basis to deny an SVFR clearance.
ATC’s don’t make rules of their own. Each ATC units obey an ops manual where such procedure are defined.
If LELL ops manual states no S-VFR then there is no S-VFR. This complies with SERA.
= EDIT =
I just check LELL charts, and it looks like there is no CTR at LELL. So I don’t think S-VFR is the matter here, as S-VFR only exists in a CTR.
Guillaume wrote:
For example, at my airport, we don’t do night VFR for aircraft.Do you know the rationale for that restriction?
An ATC unit can be more restrictive than the regulation.I was under the impression that ATC units are obliged to provide clearances as long as traffic permits?
Guillaume wrote:
Anyway, I just check LELL charts, and it looks like there is no CTR at LELL. So I don’t think S-VFR is the matter here, as S-VFR only exists in a CTR.
It’s a bit confusing. As I recall, don’t have the chart at hand right now, the airspace is class D. It’s called ATZ. Some of it overlaps with El Prat CTR. There is LELL TOWER and they do have Radar.
But then again, as I said above, I don’t like the idea of SVFR myself. It’s just a way of pushing the limits and I would consider it a legal brother of the “VMC bubble” that surrounds aircraft in some circumstances. I very much prefer to receive a proper IFR clearance while still on the ground and then get up and high as soon as possible.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Do you know the rationale for that restriction?
Airborne_Again wrote:
I was under the impression that ATC units are obliged to provide clearances as long as traffic permits?
Airlines work the same way : Under particular circumstances, we can asssign an IAS > 250 kts below FL100 to an aircraft.
But some airlines refuse to fly such clearances because it’s prohibited by their ops manual.
ATC’s don’t make rules of their own. Each ATC units obey an ops manual where such procedure are defined
Of course. You as an ATCO have to play by the rules given to you. That’s clear.
But if an airport doesn’t “want” to do SVFR, they need to have it clearly published in the AIP.
LELL is inside Barcelona CTR, but just barely. In addition, an ATZ is surrounding the airport. ATZs are usually made for specific reason: to define a volume of airspace around an airport in which a certain set of rules applies.
In any case I will return to Girona LEGE and avoid all that trouble the following Monday by departing from an “IFR” airport – whatever that term really might mean :-)
Where can I sign the petition for IFR clearances with void times from any airfield?
