I landed yesterday at Ioannina LGIO – greeted by extremely friendly people from Skyserv. The communication with them was easy and all e-mails and phone calls were responded immediately.The airport itself is easy: no PPR, no slot coordination, customs & immigration available during working hours of the Iairport. However, there are two drawbacks: short working hours (9:30 till 13;50 and 20:30 till 22:00) and no fuel (neither 100 LL nor Jet A1). I’m relatively close to LGIO and I can fly roundtrip without refueling but for someone flying from Austria/Germany or similar it is the problem e.g. it requires next airport to have fuel.
Originally I was supposed to fly to Preveza LGPZ because my destination was Lefkada but after many e-mails and phone calls (slot coordination, military approval) I got permission to land after 18:00 (local time). That was too late for me and I wasn’t allowed to park at civil apron. That meant that fees were estimated at 240€ pluse 1.90€ per hour of parking at military apron and I needed 7 days of parking.
So I decided to land to LGIO and take rental car which turned out to be much cheaper combination than solely landing to LGPZ.
This thread is related to the Greek slot one.
PPR is supposed to be for parking and slots are supposed to be for an instrument approach.
Money-grabbing handlers in Greece have wrapped the two things (PPR and slots) together.
Some experiences in Greece in the last few days indicate that
At “fraported” airports, Fraport have replaced the function of the old CAA office, so they are basically in charge of everything, and they must be aware of these practices but allow them to continue.
I have paid €330 at Samos LGSM, which included two slots (due to a delay in arrival of 24hrs). That is c. 10 times of what it was 2 years ago.
I flew to Greece 3 times this year to various airports (LGKR, LGIR, LGMG, LGKF, LGBL and LGIO – some 25 flight hours) and I spent around 1000€ for fees at Greek airports and approximately same amount for fuel. If CAT had such ratio, low cost flying wouldn’t exist at all.
The attached primitive-uneducated person seems to play a highly influential role in indigenous policies i.e.self shooting own feet! Just as Raspoutin.Do you trust this face ?
In parallel with our endless discussions about LGGG airports they also succeeded to close the only gold mine ,sending thousands of miners in poverty and unemployment.This
“advisor” celebrates the outcome.Equaly, we’ll see him celebrate the extinction of GA in this land.1000 Euros for Emir ? Who cares.The just want to grab your wallet in a very rude way.Slot or No Slot !
Peter, as we also discussed at Astypalea, you should write to the central Goldair offices and ask for the price list and for the important clarification regarding the “slot”.
If it is related to IFR flights only then you should get 100E back.
Any hopes for the 2018 flying season in terms of reduced fees at the Fraport and non-Fraport airports?
I gues it’s going to be difficult, since hell broke loose last year, with all sorts of “new” fees appearing and exploding…. seems the only solution would be if you managed to negotiate some new (real) forfait/flat fee for “small” GA operations for AOPA members.
Thanks for all the efforts.
P.S. Recently, a fellow pilot reported 301€ for a short tech stop at LGKV, including a >100€ customs fee…
>100 for customs fee for any airport is absurd !
I guess he got handling without discount and the handler notified them (charge) to turn up off scheduled hours (one more charge).
From what I hear:
AOPA have asked for a meeting to catch up where they left things in 2017 and FRAPORT responded that they will arrange a meeting “soon” with the new COO.
The biggest issue though are the handlers and their pricing policy. AOPA is working on that too (two meetings until now in 2017) but it is not easy because they are private companies in an almost monopoly situation. There are Greek AOPA members who want to donate the financing of legal action in European Commission Courts against the handlers condemning the situation for “abuse of monopoly position” (or whatever its called in legal terms). Its a delicate issue and all efforts are being made to avoid reaching this point but this might be the last resort.
AOPA are staging a Conference at end of January which may help boost some dormant issues.
Thanks petakas. Sounds like a steep hill to climb. I still really appreciate all your efforts!
I guess any legal action will have little effect though. The problem is the multitude of fees. So even if say the ridiculous PPR fee is dropped, the invoice total will still be huge. Also, transparency is lacking, much like in places like Italy. So again, I think the only thing that would save it would be a flat fee agreeement for AOPA members, which is INCLUSIVE of the landing fee, PPR, slot, possible customs, etc.
The problem with Greece of course is that these people can and might say that somebody flying a private aircraft all the way from say Central Europe to Greece will not go bankrupt over 300 Euros (and not even over paying it a few times) and of course, they would be essentially right. But the reality is that even these people will not be WILLING to pay that money more than once, and will thus not come back. But then these people are very few of course…
And then of course there is the “local” (Greek) GA, which is course is another matter.
Exactly, I agree on every single word you wrote.
will not go bankrupt over 300 Euro
Obviously not unless we start to assist to a copycat throughout Schengen (with companies like Fraport), it turns things differently.
How can you be charged of 67 euros for a 2 days stop in Salzburg including handling and be charged 150 for a technical VFR stop for a refuel in Samos? Moreover, I lost 30 minutes on a very hard discussion with a customs officer that wanted to rob me from 30 euros for a technical stop where you legally don’t exit the apron ( which you do in Samos because the handling agent has the office on the land side, but that’s not my problem). I only got over it after I sort of overstep any authority by putting my diplomatic passport over the table.
Involving AOPA EU on the Portuguese case worked pretty well, did AOPA Greece required their support? One would say that is a private issue due to airport being explored by private companies, nevertheless there is a legal obligation for Greek Government to regulate. The mandatory port of entry issue for flights arriving and departing for an to Schengen is also on my humble opinion a clear violation of the agreement, since Greece didn’t request any temporary suspension of measure.
In case AOPA Greece requires financial contribution for a law suit under European Cort of Law for abuse of commercial dominance position, I will contribute immediately.