Yes; there is no reason to behave so arrogantly and kick out GA which takes so little space, needs so few facilities and causes no trouble.
Ultimately one should blame whoever allowed Fraport to get into this position (same as all problem employees are really the fault of the recruiter) but as I said Greece had its back to the wall.
I hope it gets resolved.
what_next wrote:
The Greek airports would be stupid if they would not take the opportunity and make the best of it – after all, it serves the whole country. Instead of whining about a few restrictions to GA we all should be glad that Greece finally has a chance to prosper economically.
Sorry, I can’t agree with you on this. Nobody here is whining about the airport expansion: the problem is the arbitrary and substantial increase of fees and the fact that long-established local operators (aeroclubs) are being kicked out.
Since this forum is about GA and most forum members participate in leisure GA activities, it is only natural that we are bothered when this activitiy is made substantially harder or eliminated completely. This is especially true since we very well know that most of these airports have swaths of extra capacity for small GA, even when they are relatively busy.
@what_next
How is it that US airports of all sizes are able to accommodate GA traffic without disruption?
I don’t think it’s either/or (that is, either pesky piston traffic OR an unending stream of business jets, charters and scheduled traffic chock full of well heeled tourists, sweetness, light, and prosperity both for Greece and its French and German lenders—-actually those guys have already been made whole thanks to the ECB and IMF—but you get the idea).
It’s a bit like saying, “we just need big fish—everything lower on the food chain can croak, as far as we’re concerned.”
Piston traffic will not add much to the Fraport bottom line at first glance, but it can be part of a healthy aviation ecosystem and add to the vibrancy and atmosphere of even large airports. Greece, of all places, should welcome GA of all sizes.
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
It’s a bit like saying, “we just need big fish—everything lower on the food chain can croak, as far as we’re concerned.”Piston traffic will not add much to the Fraport bottom line at first glance, but it can be part of a healthy aviation ecosystem and add to the vibrancy and atmosphere of even large airports.
Given the trends we see, I think the only way to achieve this healthy ecosystem would be a regulatory intervention at the EU-wide level. The European Commission is doing precious little in this direction, but at least it claims to be committed to making GA sustainable. It’s up to us to make a clear case for that and keep pushing for it through our MEPs and other similar channels.
LGST Sitia yesterday was 48€ total cost for a technical landing with AOPA card and an overnight stay via Skyserv. AVGAS at Sitia costs 3.22€ per liter.
I asked for refuelling while in the approach and was told the fuel pump was broken but will work tomorrow. I then responded that I cancel my approach and divert to Iraklion but AFIS urged me repeatedly to land because for sure it will work tomorrow and even one hour before airport opening time. So I gave in and landed and indeed, I managed to depart on the next day pretty much on schedule.
The new terminal is huge and completely deserted. Biggest waste of taxpayer money I have seen in a long time (with Iraklion around the corner). The 3 police officers were so bored that they literally took 10 minutes to examine my passport. I very much preferred the airport when it only had the south ramp, no handlers and one would walk up to the nice AFIS guy on the tower and pay a (way too small) landing fee. Now it is a lot of useless complication and expenses with an amount of paperwork that would make any African country blush but that only takes time. The newest invention of the creative forms industry at Greek airports is one where I have to put in my complete personal details, those of my passengers and certify that the flight is not performed “for hire”. Heck, even to get fuel, they need to know my street address!
Good to see that the friendly Australian-Greek fuel guy is still there, pumping AVGAS from barrels.
All in all, I think Sitia is a good place if by coincidence your plans match their crazy opening hours (rather unlikely though). I normally prefer Iraklion because of H24 but this 62€ ripoff made me go for LGST again after 2 years of not having landed there. I spoke to somebody who landed 2 days before me in Iraklion LGIR with a VFR plan and he did not pay that slot fee so I would have filed a Y plan if the weather was stable. I always take the scenic runway 30 at LGIR anyway.
What’s interesting is that the Sitia terminal got finished. Here it is in 2010 and it was the same in 2014
It must have cost many millions just to finish it. OTOH Iraklion is 3hrs away from east Crete by bus so maybe they plan to have holiday flights there. But there is no mass tourism infractructure in eastern Crete…
I never found the narrow Sitia time slots to be a problem. It would be hard to hit it if flying from the UK at 140kt, plus or minus the wind, but I have not had a problem doing a 5hr flight there from say Mali Losinj. It does rule out a day trip but you have that “2 hour opening” problem at most Greek island airports apart from the busy ones.
I guess, as W-N says, Greece is trying to cash in fast on the Turkish troubles, but when they get sorted, Turkey will again be half the price of Greece (ok if you want really cheap holidays in the sun) and probably even less because they will be desperate. So it may be a short-lived boom and in the meantime the Greek GA scene will have been shafted.
The really good thing would be if Greece allowed the aeroclubs to set up their own runways. Then everybody would benefit.
Peter wrote:
I never found the narrow Sitia time slots to be a problem.
Well, I certainly consider them to be a problem:
MON,WED 0600-1000
TUE CLOSED
THU 0600-1100
FRI 0800-1500
SAT 0700-1100
SUN 0700-1500
If you come from further away, you can only arrive on Friday and Sunday. If you need to go far when leaving, you have to leave on Monday, Wednesday or Thursday. Madness. Infrastructure built up to gigantic dimensions that nobody needs, crippled in its utility by opening hours serving one company only, prices that are steep for GA pilots while still contributing nothing to paying for the infrastructure…
LGIR was excellent infrastructure that surely has a very positive impact on the economy and was wide open to GA pilots. While it is not privatized yet, it also got much worse for GA pilots in the last few weeks so it’s not directly related to the sale some airports.
LGIR.
Maybe you saw – I paid more than 163€ at LGIR, so it’s not cheap comparing to usual European GA airport.
Maybe you saw – I paid more than 163€ at LGIR, so it’s not cheap comparing to usual European GA airport.
While I also dislike too high airport fees I think the real comparison is the price of fuel and airport fees combined. This depends on the uplift but when buying JetA1 often it pays off to accept higher fees at bigger airports in order to get a better deal on fuel.
