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Secrets of Greece?

chflyer wrote:

A DA42 would do the trick too I would think, no?

Realistically, no. Larger engines – more consumption because that’s why you bought them

Diamond advertises this long range flying at 45% load but in reality nobody does that. This load gives you 130 KTAS at FL160 with 7.2 GPH, so you can get some 1300 NM flying 10 hours. Who would want that? With slightly higher load 60% you get 150 KTAS with 9.8 GPH which gives you 1170 NM flying 7:45 hours. These number are just approximation on what’s written in POH for DA42 with CD-155 engines. The numbers for DA42-VI are slightly better because of better aerodynamics.

My usual cruise loads are 75% (175 KTAS, 13 GPH, 5:50 hours, 1000 NM) or 70% (170 KTAS, 12 GPH, 6:20, 1100 NM). These numbers are pretty accurate measured across 250 flight hours, mainly at these altitudes and settings. You can notice that gain in distance is not so big at pretty high loss in speed. So realistically, you can plan 850 to 900 NM with reserve to be on the safe side, spending 5 hours in the aircraft which pretty enough

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Emir,

the question with all these planes is the sweet spot between range and speed. There are some situations where max range is absolutely needed and then it is obviously nice if you can actually fly 1300 NM if you need to, say in a ferry flight or for a special mission. However the numbers you quote are quite interesting: Basically the gain of 130 NM range but with 2-45 more flying time obviously is not something people will do a lot.

Then there is another factor: The lower the planning speed, the higher the impact of head wind. With 130 kts, 20 kts head will give you 110 ground speed and kill 200 NM range in 10 hours. With 150 kts, 20 kt head will give 130 kts GS and kill 150 NM range, at your normal speed of 175 kt you will end up with 155 kts and the wind will kill about 120 NM of your 1000 NM range.

Obviously the same goes for the Ovation figures I quoted yesterday, even though they are higher from the outset.

For Greece however, the DA42 will have a huge advantage over most of the SEP’s we are talking about here, as it does not have to worry about fuel availability.

LSZH, Switzerland

I don’t think a jet-a1 plane has a big advantage for Greece unless you are going to be based there and are willing to throw money at airports owned by Greece’s creditors, €300+ at a time

Look at which airports don’t have avgas but have jet-a1 but have not been shafted by fraport. I am sure there are some (Karpathos comes to mind) but one would need to work at it to make a list.

For occassional visits to Greece, avgas is fine. Obviously you can’t do it in a C150 but (a) you never could and (b) nobody (apart from a tiny number of truly devoted masochists) does touring in those types. Any plane with a decent range can pick up avgas at LGIO or LGST and fly all around Greece.

This is from here

All you need is some planning

One can also argue that the €300+ blown to fraport is not an issue for the occassional trip, which is also true, but that isn’t really an avgas related issue either, because you can get avgas at a number of these.

I just don’t think Greece is difficult to fly around. The biggest issue in Greece, if you want to see the nice places (i.e. the small islands) are the airport timetables. There are airport-airport routes which are impossible, on some days, impossible in something slower than an F16, etc. The next biggest issue in Greece is the attitude of many airport workers… Greeks are IME perhaps the most friendly and welcoming people in Europe but the moment some of them get a job at an airport everything changes

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Nice to see this thread back on topic and off the topic of 1.500nm flights in one go

With the improved prices of SKYSERV now one can visit with ordinary charges any of the airports in the “diagonal axis” of LGIO Ioannina (for Fuel & Greece Entry/Exit), then LGMG Megara, LGSO Syros or LGST Sitia for (re)fuel and continue to final destination.
Note:LGMG has no handling.

LGMG Megara, Greece

petakas wrote:

With the improved prices of SKYSERV now one can visit with ordinary charges any of the airports in the “diagonal axis” of LGIO Ioannina (for Fuel & Greece Entry/Exit), then LGMG Megara, LGSO Syros or LGST Sitia for (re)fuel and continue to final destination.
Note:LGMG has no handling.

Definitely a huge improvement and certainly justifies another look for those who had previously written off Greece due to the sum of all the issues. Besides the islands being the major attraction, LGIO Ioannina and LGMG Megara/Athens are both worth a visit in themselves, especially for those not needing to come all the way from the UK or the Nordics.

LSZK, Switzerland

Peter wrote:

The biggest issue in Greece, if you want to see the nice places (i.e. the small islands) are the airport timetables.

On some islands there’s an issue of parking especially in high season which tends to extend and I believe it’s from beginning of April (of May) until end of October.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Indeed; that is a problem for a fly-in (it’s a problem for a fly-in in all places in Europe where the “health and safety manager” painted parking places on the tarmac ) but I have never encountered it when just visiting on my own. In most cases mine is the only plane parked.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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