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LZBB FIR - aids, recommendations etc (and Skydemon/EuroFPL VFR flight plans being faxed)

Hunnicat wrote:

- I do not know why SkyDemon will not write the notice to pilots that their flight plans has to be sent by fax due to their past mistakes.

Of course. SkyDemon should know and as their customer I’ll soon ask them.

- I have also written to you here our temporary solution.

I personally very much appreciate this.

- I apologize, but I do not know what else to deliver.

You do not have to apologize, you already did far more than what would be expected. As Anders wrote, your contribution to this thread helped us understand what happens to VFR flight plans in situation like mine last Saturday. Also, it seems that you at Bratislava ARO were not aware that pilots who use SkyDemon receive no indication that their flight plan was faxed to the ARO and therefore they should act accordingly, otherwise they would be in breach of the rules outlined in the AIP. Not only you were made aware of this situation, you also proposed (and implemented) a temporary solution that will surely make the life of non-local pilots flying from Slovakia easier. Thank you and really nothing to apologize for IMO.

Last Edited by JnsV at 30 Aug 12:17
Hajdúszoboszló LHHO

Hunnicat wrote:

We are still returning here to something that neither of us will affect.

It took me, and probably others, this long to understand what was going on with the flight plan that was used as an example earlier.
It is of value to me to know that Skydemon and EuroFPL for some countries submits VFR flight plans as FAX.

Does anyone know for which countries Skydemon and EuroFPL submits VFR flight plans as FAX?

ESTL

Dear friends.
- I would like to end the discussion on my part.
- Flight plans must be faxed by SkyDemon/EuroFPL because they were misspelled in the past and were incorrect (according AIP ENR 1.10 and 1.11)!
- I do not know why SkyDemon will not write the notice to pilots that their flight plans has to be sent by fax due to their past mistakes.
- We are still returning here to something that neither of us will affect.
- The fact is: flight plans will be faxed and has to be verified by the submitter according AIP.
- I have also written to you here our temporary solution.
- I apologize, but I do not know what else to deliver.
Best regards.
PM

LZIB

EuroFPL have a fax gateway and use that for Slovakia

Is that specific to Slovakia?

I use EuroFPL for VFR flight plans (I don’t do many of them) and they definitely go via the AFTN. I did one the other day EGKA-LFAT and LFAT definitely doesn’t accept faxes.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

achimha wrote:

How so? If the aerodrome of departure is controlled, a copy of the flight plan should be available.

If it is a controlled airport. But in this part of Europe piston GA (=most SkyDemon users) do not fly from controlled airports (in Hungary there is only one civilian controlled airport in the whole country) and SkyDemon very well knows that in this particular instance I was not flying from one.

IMO what they should have said:
“Your flight plan was submitted as fax to the ARO of your departure country (Slovakia). Please follow instructions in the Slovakia AIP ENR 1.10 to make sure that your flight plan is active.”

Last Edited by JnsV at 30 Aug 09:40
Hajdúszoboszló LHHO

JnsV wrote:

The part about the departure aerodrome tower is total bullshit.

How so? If the aerodrome of departure is controlled, a copy of the flight plan should be available.

Anders wrote:

How are users of Skydemon and EuroFPL supposed to know that their electronically filed flight plan was converted to and submitted as a FAX?

I’m quite sure that SkyDemon perfectly knows that these flight plans. The question is why they send an e-mail that suggests they deliver using AFTN, and not FAX…

Dear […],

This email is confirmation that your flightplan has been successfully filed. A copy of the flightplan message, which has been sent to all recipients, is below for your reference.

Flightplans are like emails. Although we can guarantee that your flightplan has been sent to all addresses below, we cannot guarantee that the recipients will properly retain your flightplan. We therefore always advise telephoning the tower at your departure aerodrome to ensure they still have a copy of your flightplan ready before you begin your journey to the aerodrome.

(FPL-[…])

Addresses: LZIBZPZX

In accordance with international practices, the supplementary information supplied by you will be stored safely by us. It will be sent to any of the recipients automatically should they request it.

You can now cancel, delay or close your flightplan by using the tools available to you on our website, at the address below.

http://www.skydemon.aero/members/flightplans.aspx

Sincerely,

SkyDemon Team

The part about the departure aerodrome tower is total bullshit.

Hajdúszoboszló LHHO

The image below is taken from the back side of a Swedish ATS Flight Plan form.

If you submit a flight plan via FAX you are instructed to call in and get confirmation that the flight plan is ok.

How are users of Skydemon and EuroFPL supposed to know that their electronically filed flight plan was converted to and submitted as a FAX?
And then to know they are supposed to call some unknown phone number to get confirmation that the flight plan is ok?

ESTL

achimha wrote:

EuroFPL have a fax gateway and use that for Slovakia. The fax contains the ICAO flight plan and also ORGN/KBLIHAEX (originator). EuroFPL (and thus SkyDemon) are generally known as KBLIHAEX in the community.
Aha! That actually makes sense.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

A picture of Jesus is fine. It is MOHAMMED’s picture you should not show (if you don’t want flying to be the safest of you activities).

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