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A classy landing on a road

I guess it is more to do with slowest touchdown speed and the aircrafts are more designed to take longitudinal loads, for tailwheel aircrafts I don’t think wheels will touch the water before stall at the water level as most sits already at max angle of attack, so you may have to stall it some feets higher than water…

The successful ditching in the Hudson was not in stall, in the ntsb report states that the aircraft had 10 degrees AoA on impact (4 alpha margins to 14 max) while the captain tries to get more flare but airbus fly by wire stall protection blocked some of it

Not sure what is the best on water stall it or fly it? a similar debate exist in tailwheels some say you need to “tree point it” verus “wheel it” but my view is just land it as you were used to do it

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

as most sits already at max angle of attack

I’m not sure that’s true. I did some experimenting with mine and found it’s about 5 degrees more nose up in the stall than it sits on the ground.

Andreas IOM

In most fixed gears, it seems wheels will hit water first, irrespective of what the pilot does with the stick in controlled flight (in accident reports, ditching definition only refers to controlled flight and excludes stalled crash on top of water), stalling an aircraft is never a good idea (most landings are not stalls, just slow flights on ground effect)

You can also ask for RGs what is the best procedure for ditching gear up? or gear down?

Some types are designed to land both gear up/down on both water/ground: some have done it in CL215s/C130s (checklists are optional when fire/war is around ), but for GA types, I think most of us will go with gear up and take the risk of more speed and bounces…

CAA leaflet makes it clear on gear up with a reminder of automatic lowering systems:
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20130121SSL21.pdf

Some says RG up/down does not matter while ditching, I find this hard to believe:
http://www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I can land my Turbulent tailwheel first so it clearly depends on the aircraft type. The real lesson from that accident is that if you’re going to ditch a Turbulent, do so in front of a crowd or in deep water. The aircraft was resting too close to the sea bed for the pilot to extract himself, and he would have been trapped underwater had he not been helped out.

Some says RG up/down does not matter while ditching, I find this hard to believe:

Slightly flippantly, you might be able to make a case for landing aerobatic types upside down, then when they come to rest they should be the right way up.

Ibra wrote:

The successful ditching in the Hudson was not in stall, in the ntsb report states that the aircraft had 10 degrees AoA on impact (4 alpha margins to 14 max) while the captain tries to get more flare but airbus fly by wire stall protection blocked some of it

The airbus touched down with a good amount of square area (fuselage, wings) simultaneously which helped to spread impact energy and keep it in one piece as opposed to cartwheeling and ripping apart. A crucial element of survival. However, I don’t think that is relevant to ditching a C152 or other fixed gear light planes. The inertia of a 70 ton airbus and the build quality, the flight control system, wing design etc… is vastly different to all light planes, is it not?

The small plane that flips in the video seems like it was very slow (almost stalled) and therefore unstable around the horizontal axis so the remaining energy was immediately transferred towards a forward momentum. Maybe it’s better to really fly the plane as far into the crash as possible and touch the water with still effective flight controls (I recall the Mustang engine out video on land, for example).

always learning
LO__, Austria

kwlf wrote:

Slightly flippantly, you might be able to make a case for landing aerobatic types upside down, then when they come to rest they should be the right way up.

Takes more time to unzip the 5 points straps and most aero pilots will wear parachutes, while in Turbs you can consider yourself happy if you manage to slot in while wearing a pant and jacket to stay warm

Snoopy wrote:

energy was immediately transferred towards a forward momentum

The forward momentum seems due to SEPs heavy engine that sits in front, probably with twins you don’t flip…

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

There’s no evidence that singles always or even usually flip during a ditching – there’s plenty of evidence of singles (including high wing) not flipping on ditching – for example, last year’s Pawnee ditching that was posted here on EuroGA, a photo sequence of a Cessna 185 being ditched and not flipping, video from inside a Cessna Caravan being ditched and not flipping, reports from pilots that have ditched fixed gear singles and not flipped etc.

Pawnee ditching:

https://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/8788-ditching-caught-on-video

Andreas IOM

Nicely done in the Pawnee, good to know that you can get away without getting wet (both literally and figuratively)

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

The fatal Piper crash, where they stalled into a been, would more likely have been survivable if the pilot had ditched, after his Mayday call over the Wash, instead of gliding to land.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom
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