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Mandatory PBN training (merged)

Timothy wrote:

However, as soon as ATC clear you to an RNAV waypoint

Including those old waypoints that comes from conventional/rnav overlay? (e.g. those previously defined by distances/radials nav aids)

If I got “cleared to rnav waypoint XYZ” and I don’t have PBN endorsement/equipment, I would take 15min and reply “cleared to intersection 96.5 ABC DME & 312 YYY QDR” to stay compliant

This reminds me of position reports from a live SD screen, I used to reply using the name of the closest village/town with 100 population, btw the controller lives 100nm away

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

How to give non-commercial aviation a reputation, eh?

Given our very weak position in controlled airspace, and that the majority of us pay nothing to be there, tugging the tail of the system does not seem wise.

but anyway:

Ibra wrote:

If I got “cleared to rnav waypoint XYZ” and I don’t have PBN endorsement/equipment, I would take 15min and reply “cleared to intersection 96.5 ABC DME & 312 YYY QDR” to stay compliant

is not compliant.

If you really want to be able to fly in “PBN airspace” without being compliant, then the best/cheapest way of getting away with it would be to use SkyDemon on an iPhone, find the way point and point the aircraft at it. It would still be stupid and illegal, but at least it would not also p1ss off air traffic controllers, increase their stress and workload and cause other people’s deaths.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Just joking

Timothy wrote:

If you really want to be able to fly in “PBN airspace” without being compliant, then the best/cheapest way of getting away with it would be to use SkyDemon on an iPhone, find the way point and point the aircraft at it. It would still be stupid and illegal, but at least it would not also p1ss off air traffic controllers, increase their stress and workload and cause other people’s deaths.

I personally think it is the way to go forward, it will make life more enjoyable: easier traffic management and cheaper solutions for private pilots approaches in small/mid-side airports, but only under one condition: commercial flying/infrastructure gets itself sorted on rnav/rnp and non-commercial aviation to benefit from that

GA has always complained about VORs/NDBs de-cluttering from the map, this was a non event for commercial flying, so PBN could be the solution or the problem, depending if you can get a way better/cheap situational awareness on a 100£ IPad…

Last Edited by Ibra at 11 Dec 16:26
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Steady on there.

iPad for enroute navigation maybe, but absolutely not for RNP approaches.

EGKB Biggin Hill

+100£ for a WAAS adapter with 2.5m height accuracy?

Tough will not bet my life on it yet: only useful to play PokemonGo or Cycling outdoors, but who knows…

Last Edited by Ibra at 11 Dec 17:41
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

What I don’t like is that some 90% of the PBN topic is dross, more relevant to the Royal Institute of Navigation, than to flying a plane, when what is actually needed (to prevent the “WTF is it doing now” moments) is a Type Rating for each different complex avionics suite (which is what they have, de facto, in the commercial sphere). The latter will never be palatable to GA, however, and would not work anyway because, for whatever point in time, most of the available IR examiners don’t understand the avionics which are current at that point in time. When I got my plane in 2002 not one FI/FE I ever found knew how to use a KLN94…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Tofino at LFAT is very flexible for this kind of training. You may want to end up your CBIR with them :)
They don’t even have a website but are bilingual on the phone. I can give you a contact.

About what you said Peter, my dad went to a FI seminar in Paris and those able to put a DCT on a GNS430 were looked at (and they acted like) actors from CSI Miami

LFOU, France

Jujupilote wrote:

ofino at LFAT is very flexible for this kind of training. You may want to end up your CBIR with them :)
They don’t even have a website but are bilingual on the phone. I can give you a contact.

Thanks for that info. I have contacted some schools in NL but no answers yet. There is a contact on this page for Tofino: https://www.aeroport-letouquet.com/apprendre-a-piloter/ Is that the person to contact? Is so I will send off an email.

EIMH, Ireland

Try these numbers. If they don’t work, send me a PM.

LFOU, France

Peter wrote:

what is actually needed [is a] Type Rating for each different complex avionics suite

For approaches, yes (although I am sure @Peter does not mean a formal rating, but that familiarity with whatever drives the needles is required)

But RNP 1 is a doddle. In practice, it is the same old GPS navigation with higher needle sensitivity, and the requirement for proper turn anticipation.

For those using an iPad, however, there is one thing worth considering – how to figure out when it is not working. In practice and 99.9% of all cases, they are more than precise enough to use. The question is how to recognise when they are not (where the on-board equiment has RAIM or uses WAAS to tell you)

Biggin Hill
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