I would never be “forced” because – like any other pilot – I would not do it even if was told to do so.
The key issue and the reason I started the thread was, as per the subject header and like I have said several times, ATC’s claim that they could see the weather and (by implication) that I was cheating. Of course the airline pilot told ATC (in German so I would not be aware of it) that he too thought I was cheating. This was a highly unusual scenario which nobody I know has ever come across before.
Peter wrote:
as per the subject header and like I have said several times, ATC’s claim that they could see the weather and (by implication) that I was cheating.
Sorry Peter. My English may well be not good enough but at least my unterstanding is, that the subject header does not fit to the actual situation.
It’s very hard to judge a weather situation from a photo or video.
Even in flight I sometimes fail to estimate correctly how much I need to climb in order to get on top of a cloud…
Like Peter I would not enter IMC below 0°C in a non-deiced SEP over the Alps because of icing risk.
It’s the pilot’s ultimate responsibility to deal with the weather. ATC has no business in the decision making but to facilitate.
In general I find ATC very cooperative. Peters example fortunately is an exception rather than the rule..
Am I wrong or the request to avoid was not denied but the request to continue on avoidance for 50 miles was? I think that last part arouse suspicion – they know you can’t really know that you must keep that heading for 50 miles to avoid, as you probably can’t see that far – except on a really nice day of course – but then there’s likely no real need to avoid.
Would you have requested the 50miles part if it was on a worse track than your original?
Would you have requested the 50miles part if it was on a worse track than your original?
It is usual to reply with that sort of distance, if asked, because in light GA you are working much more in advance, picking a gap through a lot of stuff many miles ahead – because you don’t want to turn to avoid one thing and then end up surrounded. So you need to pick a track on which there is blue sky as far as you can see. Just avoiding the nearest thing is no good.
IMC enroute in icing conditions, with no option to descend into warmer air, is not an option, especially if it is so easily avoided.
The vis above “organised IMC” at say FL160 can easily be 50-100nm. Much below that you have almost constant haze, in Europe, and the vis may be only 10-20nm.
The clouds I was trying to avoid were some tens of nm away, on my estimate. Like I said, you have to play the game well ahead. And, obviously, as per my post with the two cloud pics X and Y, if you have multiple avoiding options then you pick the one which is closest to the desired track.
I would also think that it would help ATC to give them a long projection, rather than asking for 10 5-mile avoids. And, let’s be brutally frank, FL160 in that area is not exactly packed with 747s 
There is the terminal traffic to LOWI and a couple of others but LOWI ATC were evidently not concerned about that. They seemed to be referring to some LoA (letter of agreement) they have with Padova. When I actually got handed to Padova, Padova were cool as a cucumber and totally helpful.
What’s usual, as I know it, is to avoid clouds and TS you don’t want to fly through – and to then fly back onto the original course.
Yes, airliners that fly witha GS of 400 kts sometimes need 50 miles off track, but a TB20?
I don’t fly that way, but I do respect it if that is your idea of IFR flying (just to avoid more invitations).
Dear Alexis, who said 50nm off track?
My offer of a ticket to LGW still stands.
So Peter, after all the analysis and opinions, what would you do differently if faced with the same situation again?
You said that you might need another 50 Miles on the avoidance heading. I hope that’s precise enough.
What would you want to prove if I flew with you? That you can fly to Bembridge from Shoreham? I know that already, you can save the money (for an ADL!)
after all the analysis and opinions, what would you do differently if faced with the same situation again?
I would learn German and tell that self appointed probable Ryanair hater FL300 policeman to get lost 
For avoidance of any doubt, I have heard vast amounts of extremely embarrassing stuff on the radio (private and commercial pilots, and ATC) but would never post it. This one was so far out of line that I decided it was justified.
