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More UK airspace facepalm worthy moments...

From the FASVIG (Future Airspace Strategy – VFR Implementation Group) paper ( http://docs.fasvig.info/Programme/Modernising-Airspace-V6-0.pdf )

“VFR flight on Class C routes.
6. VFR flight along Class C airspace routes is prohibited by the UK ANO
although it is allowed by the ICAO definition of that class of airspace, and the UK
does not seem to have filed a difference with ICAO. The establishment of Class C
routes across the Irish Sea was made at the request of FASVIG in order to permit
VFR flights at a higher level in the modernised airspace. The ANO prevents that;
FASVIG would propose a change. "

I’m left without words. Why even bother reclassifying this airspace from class A to C if you’re going to just keep it effectively class A airspace?

I hope FASVIG are successful in encouraging a change to the ANO. Every 1000 feet higher I can be is nearly 2 minutes extra trouble shooting time if the engine should stop, and the Irish Sea is not warm and is very wet.

Last Edited by alioth at 11 May 13:31
Andreas IOM

Agree with your comments about height and safety Alioth. I fly across to Sligo routing via IOM and prefer as high as possible. I cannot see any class C between Pole Hill and Sligo so would you please be so kind as to give me some idea?

UK, United Kingdom

The bodies of Class C over the Irish Sea are contained within the Holyhead CTA. I think a lot of this was previously Class A.
There are various sectors of myriad shapes and altitude bands. In a few cases these are as low as FL35, but are generally above FL100.

Extract from UK AIP ENR 6.1.4.1

Class A = dark blue
Class C = magenta
Class D = green
Class E = light blue

EGTT, The London FIR

To be precise, the ANO specifies that flights under VMC within Class C airspace must be undertaken in accordance with the Instrument flight Rules (IFR). The IFR are prescribed at SERA 5015. That is pretty much common practice across many other Staes who operate Class C.

That is a shockingly bad paper from FASVIG which confuses all sorts of concepts. Here’s a ‘pearler’:

The UK does not provide a Flight Information Service, which is at the core of services provided in other states.

Fly safely
Various UK. Operate throughout Europe and Middle East, United Kingdom

Also worthy of note… some of the Western-most sectors have been delegated to Dublin.
Specifically, CTA 10 to CTA 14 and also several sectors comprising L18, just visible at the Southern end of the diagram above.

Dublin seem more amenable to VFR in this airspace, maybe because they’re far more relaxed anyway, but they do like to keep VFR traffic as low as possible. In my experience this is more of an issue inbound to Ireland, when departing the Dublin area they are generally happy to accommodate high levels for the sea crossing.

EGTT, The London FIR

That chart looks like someone pinned a chart to the wall, threw mud at it and later checked what stuck…..

The UK is full of this kind of thing. As I understand it, the claim is that they take the minimum amount of controlled airspace possible, which then results in hundreds of these little fillets.

In my view, this impacts non-turbocharged IFR traffic as it means you have to be able to reach high FLs to go IFR on a lot of routes. For instance, you need to be able to reach a minimum of FL145 (the base of Holyhead CTA 5) to take an IFR route from the Manchester area to Dublin.

EGTT, The London FIR

Dave_Phillips wrote:

To be precise, the ANO specifies that flights under VMC within Class C airspace must be undertaken in accordance with the Instrument flight Rules (IFR). The IFR are prescribed at SERA 5015. That is pretty much common practice across many other States who operate Class C.

That’s news to me and ICAO guidelines link

Finners wrote:

As I understand it, the claim is that they take the minimum amount of controlled airspace possible

Apparently including 90 mile stretches of low and middle altitude Class C airspace operated as Class A airspace. It’s bizarre.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 11 May 18:00

Dave_Phillips wrote:

To be precise, the ANO specifies that flights under VMC within Class C airspace must be undertaken in accordance with the Instrument flight Rules (IFR). The IFR are prescribed at SERA 5015. That is pretty much common practice across many other Staes who operate Class C.

Is that that it must be flown on an IFR clearance, and you require an IR, or is this simply the ground clearance appropriate to IFR flight?

What other state operate class C in that way?

EIWT Weston, Ireland

The other side of this argument is that the GA organisations kick up such a massive fuss about any CAS that CAS is as a result generated in these small pieces.

They also demand the ability to fly non txp and that precludes simplification of CAS by using larger simpler shapes.

Throw in the often crappy PPL training and you get this…

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Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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