I tend to go Hawarden, WAL, up the coast. Never an issue. I find Liverpool a bit mixed, dependent on what you are after, but on that routing never an issue.
Thanks all. Very helpful and illuminating.
My preferred route is via POL (I just flew that last weekend). Watch out for the very narrow gap in airspace you can fly through over Crossland Moor if you’re at 3000-3500’. That’s a good weather route though, those hills tend to attract weather if there’s much moisture about.
Otherwise the Manchester Low Level route. What Peter says about it is right, and if there’s any sun at all it always has STRONG thermals, which are trying to make you bust controlled airspace. It’s useful that it’s there but it’s not my first choice. By the way I’m always squawking Mode-C, Manchester LLR or not.
You can sometimes get a clearance into the controlled airspace above the Manchester LLR, but typically “not above 1500” so it’s not really very useful.
POL does look like a good option although I can see why people say it’s a (very) good weather route. I guess one just needs to be able to make a confident wx decision on the day to proceed with confidence. It would be a complicated diversion otherwise 
Don’t forget Leeds and Doncaster are virtually empty (Doncaster in particular, it’s a travesty they have such a massive area of controlled airspace), so you should be able to get a clearance through their controlled airspace in the eventuality the weather doesn’t look as good as you approach Huddersfield. Also if the weather truly goes to pot, there are several options for landing – Crossland Moor just before you get into the Pennines which you will almost certainly be using as a waypoint anyway, or there’s a few airfields in the Doncaster/Leeds area.
Personally I usually make the decision on whether to go via POL just before getting in the plane. There’s a few airfields with METARs in the area and you can also look at webcams (although check the timestamp on a webcam image very carefully – I find that 80% of webcams you find from Google search are either not working or showing an image that’s a dozen years old). It’s a bit easier doing the reverse journey I find, as you can see what the weather is looking like visually over the Pennines before having to commit, and if you’re not happy about it, go down the Manchester LLR, Approaching from the north you’re not hemmed in by controlled airspace when you can see with your own eyes what it’s looking like over the Pennines.
alioth wrote:
Personally I usually make the decision on whether to go via POL just before getting in the plane.
Yes, that will certainly be my intention! Leeds Bradford as a Plan B. Thank you
Well that was a very interesting experience!
I flew over POL and the surrounding area on Sunday with a tailwind of 20+ kts – great! – but with massive turbulence and violent up-draughts throwing me close the base of the Class A airspace – not so great. The only remedy seemed to be to push the nose down, and even close the throttle at one point, to arrest the violent and random rates of climb. Of course, gravity being what it is, and with a significant tailwind, this had the effect of pushing the air speed well into the yellow arc – somewhere I have never ventured.
Pretty scary stuff, all in crystal clear ‘good weather’ VFR conditions.
With the ground not far below, there seem to be very few options in this situation. All turned out ok in the end, but in some ways this was more distressing than some of my worse IMC experiences. Eager to know if I missed a trick. What would you (more experienced pilots) have done?
On the way back, I chose the low level corridor between Liverpool and Manchester. The forecast was pretty murky so this seemed a good option. All went well and ATC were extremely helpful… until I left Manchester’s area of coverage, so switched to E.Midlands which was fine until (rather quickly it seemed) I was leaving their area for a Traffic Service which I was starting to need, so over to Luton who told me I was out of theirs too. When I enquired who might be able to provide one, I was told there were basically “very few options” where I was. Huh? We’re talking EBOTO to BIGLI (Sywell to Old Warden) in a straight line. Birmingham provided a Basic until Luton had me in their area at last.
It seems like there’s some sort of Traffic Service Bermuda Triangle going on around there. Is that right? And what do people do in these situations, with no Traffic Service and full IFR?
To make matters more entertaining, ATC reported a non-transponding aircraft close by, obviously offering minimal information. Great. I thought these morons stayed out of IFR?!?
Grateful for your esteemed thoughts, as ever
The demise of Coventry Radar has indeed left a gaping hole south east of Birmingham airspace without adequate LARS service. Hard to say what can be done about that.
This website gives a pretty good illustration and shows the contrast between weekends and weekdays
Non-transponding aircraft are likely to be outside the clouds although possibly could be a glider (in which case installing a portable FLARM would alert you if action required) or possibly someone who’s just forgotten to turn on the transponder (not a lot you can do about that).
Thanks JasonC, interesting. The demise of Coventry Radar would certainly explain things.
As for non-transponding aircraft, I doubt there was much room ‘outside the clouds’ on this occasion, but you never know…! I won’t open that debate again though.
I realise you have done this now but I generally go up the western side, which means I dont have to talk to anyone and can stay above MSA and below controlled airspace.
Has anyone been in to Liverpool John Lennon?
I have downloaded the fees and they seem reasonable…circa £45 to land (including navigation charges) and £11 per 24 hours to park. Prices including VAT.
Bearing in mind it will get us into the middle of Liverpool, which is where we need to be…the extra money seems well spent.
Am I missing something here?
As a Mancunian I’m not familiar with Liverpool but it looks like one of my daughters will be there for 5 years, so I thought I better get a plan together. I’ve looked at Howarden and Blackpool, but when you add it all up I think going for John Lennon Airport with all it’s facilities might be the way ahead?
