Kind of makes a mockery of this change to follow SERA, if they can still exempt the Manchester LLR from it (the ATC clearance part). If they can exempt the Manchester LLR, then surely they could have carried on with the below 3000’ and 140kt exemption everywhere else.
According to NATS EGCC charts, it is SFC-3500: https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAIP/Publications/2019-07-18-AIRAC/graphics/69502.pdf
Local
It IS area CTR-D, right?
The latest EGCC CTR chart from AIP-UK, dated January 2020, says “Manchester CTR D 3500-SFC” smack in the middle of the LLC.
The 2019 1:500k SOUTH chart shows it clearly as Class G
but hilariously the 1:500k NORTH (2017 is the last I have) chart shows it as Class D. Note the exact position of the CTR SFC-3500 label between the two charts
In the N chart the label straddles the vertical dashed line so it clearly applies to both sides of it
I don’t know if the N chart came out in 2019.
they are going to have to run a lot of GASCo courses.
The Gasco “sentence” seems to be used less now. During 2019 they top-sliced about 20/month from the CAS busts and sent them to Gasco; rest got warning letters. More recently the numbers are much lower and clearly they can’t keep running that course on that. I guess the EuroGA publicity and eventually my own summary (which is getting over 1k hits per month) must have helped. During the one I went on they presented a case of a pilot who busted the Barton ATZ which made the system appear in really poor light.
I’ve done that route a few times and would never do it again. Half the traffic there is non transponding so you get nothing on TCAS and everybody is at 1300ft. However, VFR pilots don’t get much of a choice.
It is? When I interrogate it, it shows class G:
Selecting the ‘Manchester low level route’ right arrow also does not mention airspace D.
This I think is a recent change (I noticed it about a month ago and thought ’That’s curious…’)
If in reality it remains airspace D, and the CAA doesn’t re-extend its derogation then they are going to have to run a lot of GASCo courses.
Just to clarify that SkyDemon depicts the LLR in white purely to identify its existence separately from the rest of the Manchester zone, and the non applicability of full Class D rules within it.
Interrogating the airspace type on SD shows that it is indeed still Class D and not class G.
Xtophe wrote:
There is no reason to change the current arrangements when the conditions are VMC according to SERA.
This is specific to the Manchester LLR. The Manchester LLR is (or possibly was) class D airspace but you didn’t need a clearance or talk to anyone to enter this very specific piece of class D airspace. Yes, this is weird, and I’m not sure why it was ever implemented this way when the logical way to have implemented the Manchester LLR in the first place would be class E or G airspace. (Incidentally, the airspace around Barton (ATZ and all) used to be like this too around 20 years ago, with Barton wholly enveloped by Manchester’s class D, but for the slice of it around Barton you could enter without talking to Manchester. This slice was changed to class G airspace some time ago).
With the change to adopt SERA, it means this arrangement goes away, so for all practical purposes, the Manchester LLR ceases to exist (it’s just another piece of class D as the special exception is no longer allowed). This isn’t wanted by NATS or the pilots for obvious reasons. A large %age of the pilots would also end up (I’m sure) unaware of this change, and end up flying through the Manchester LLR, not realising the arrangement has ceased, and receive a nastygram in the post a bit later for their egregious airspace bust.
However, I suspect the CAA has actually fixed the issue; the Manchester LLR now appears on Skydemon as class G airspace.
From here
A new wrinkle on this:
The Manchester LLR is officially class D airspace, but there’s an exemption to allow VFR traffic through the Manchester LLR without needing a clearance.
This will apparently be changed, too, this came in from the Lancashire Aero Club:
Dear Members,
You may already be aware that on March 26th the VFR derogation in Class D airspace will be removed. This has for years meant that while flying in Class D airspace we only need to be clear of cloud and in sight of the surface, if flying at less than 140kts. The new limitation means that VFR flight in Class D will have to be 1000ft clear of cloud vertically, unless a Special VFR clearance is obtained, when the old limits will still be in force. Either way a positive clearance to enter Class D must be obtained.
Why this matters so much is that the Low Level Route is Class D airspace, although treated as Class G currently.
We have been in contact with Manchester ATC on this and they would very much like the existing arrangement to continue as the alternative is a vast increase in workload for both us and them. So far the CAA have refused to allow the derogation in the LLR to continue but negotiations between NATS and the CAA are continuing and MAN ATC are trying to find a work-around with the co-operation of Liverpool ATC.
So, unless something changes, you will require a positive clearance to enter the LLR and can only fly it VFR if the cloudbase is higher than 2000ft agl (bearing in mind the requirement to be 1000ft above towns in the route). If the cloudbase is lower then you must get a Special VFR clearance from MAN ATC. There are visibility conditions to be met as well.
This is the sum of the information we have at the moment, of course any developments will be publicised as soon as they occur.
Regards,
Lancashire Aero Club
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If this change goes ahead, it’s going to be a rich source of airspace infringements as well as making the Manchester LLR effectively no longer exist. The pilots don’t want this, NATS doesn’t want this, the controllers don’t want this – perhaps the CAA will reclassify the airspace.
Note: Skydemon is currently depicting the Manchester LLR as class G airspace, so perhaps the change has happened and the word just hasn’t got out.
e wrote:
I notice you’re from the Isle of Man – this is where we were heading to after POL. Big shout out to Ronaldsway – possibly the friendliest airport I’ve ever visited
There should be a EuroGA meetup here :-)
I fly into Ronaldsway once or twice a month (from Andreas) and they’ve always been perfect. I’m usually only visiting the fuellers at area Mike though, but the café is only 10 minutes from home so it’s a nice place to go to spectate of an evening.
