Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Alternate and diversion aerodrome - do you ask for PPR/PNR before getting airborne?

We are taught that the FAA requirement is primarily a fuel planning requirement and the pilot is in no way bound to use it.

I believe it is the same thing in Europe, although I haven’t looked it up. I don’t even think that the FPLs are distributed to the airports filed as alternates.

LFPT, LFPN

NCYankee wrote:

The AFTN routing is much simpler in the US. For IFR, only the center (FIR) that the flightplan originates in is addressed. Center handles any additional distribution as needed.
It is just as simple in Europe. Simpler, actually, as all IFR flight plans are sent to the same place (Eurocontrol) regardless of where the flight originates. (You actually address the flight plan to two places as Eurocontrol have two flight plan processing systems for redundancy, but the addresses are still always the same.)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

That’s true only for IFR (“I”) and partly-IFR (Z and Y) flight plans and these go via a VPN or some such to Eurocontrol, not via the AFTN.

V go solely via the AFTN, and Z and Y have to be duplicated to the AFTN also. That’s why it is cheaper to offer just “I” because you don’t have to pay for the AFTN mailbox which is not cheap – some portion of $1 per message I vaguely recall, mostly provided by companies in the USA.

The alternate will get the FP via the AFTN if it is addressed; I don’t remember if it is addressed. With Eurocontrol-only filing (“I” plans) I don’t know either, but it would be fairly easy to establish. Anyone working in ATC will know.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

PPR Prior Permission Required.

This is not correct. PPR stands for Prior Permission Requirements. It has literally nothing to do with a permission being required. The airport may have special pattern or other strangeness you have to know about. Actually optaining an explicit permission may be one of those requirements, but that is not the main purpose of PPR, and is not a usual requirement.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

This is not correct. PPR stands for Prior Permission Requirements.

From AIP Norge GEN 2.2:

Forhåndstillatelse nødvendig PPR Prior permission required

Actually optaining an explicit permission may be one of those requirements, but that is not the main purpose of PPR, and is not a usual requirement.

If prior permission is required, then permission is required before.

Last Edited by Aviathor at 30 Jul 12:32
LFPT, LFPN

AIP is wrong

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

AIP is wrong

The British and French as well?

AIP UK:

PPR Prior Permission Required

AIP France:

PPR Autorisation préalable nécessaire Prior permission required

Last Edited by Aviathor at 30 Jul 13:44
LFPT, LFPN

When looking through the lists of abbreviations, I noticed that
PNR=Point of no Return

instead of “Prior Notice Required”… The correct abbreviation for “Prior Notice Required” is “PN”

Last Edited by Aviathor at 30 Jul 13:43
LFPT, LFPN

Peter wrote:

That’s true only for IFR (“I”) and partly-IFR (Z and Y) flight plans and

Silvaire was talking about IFR flight plans, so I was talking about that, too.

these go via a VPN or some such to Eurocontrol, not via the AFTN.

Huh? Of course you can file with Eurocontrol through AFTN. I’m 99% sure that’s what Autorouter does. If you look in the AIP of any Eurocontrol state, you should find the addresses.

(That doesn’t mean that there are also some way to access the Eurocontrol computers directly.)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

LeSving wrote:

AIP is wrong

Please, LeSving. You are making a fool of yourself.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top