Peter wrote:
I realise FF is offering the same app for the US market as for the European market. This may be the central problem.
Of course. That’s what I have been saying for ever. For something as tricky and special as flightplanning in Europe, it needs a European product. Made by Europeans, for Europeans.
Peter wrote:
I remain utterly puzzled by Foreflight seems unable to add the fly-by waypoint option for Eurocontrol IFR flight plan development.
Peter, why do you think they are unable to offer it? They just haven’t offered it yet. They said they will. They seem to have spent a lot of time getting European countries out.
Made by Europeans, for Europeans.
Isn’t that a little culturally arrogant? Also, they own AviationCloud in Denmark and last time I checked they were still European.
I am also not as pessimistic as @boscomantico. They appear to be devoting a lot of resources and have come a long way. They aren’t Skydemon, but Skydemon isn’t foreflight. They might get there.
Made by Europeans, for Europeans
That is not necessary. We are talking about just technology after all. Do you buy a phone which is made by Europeans, for Europeans?
In software development terms, it is easy to expose user interface features according to the locale, etc.
why do you think they are unable to offer it? They just haven’t offered it yet.
It must be 1-2 years in discussion now. Until they have it, the product’s IFR functionality is largely wasted, because – other than by chance – you can’t develop a route which avoids bad wx, ATC strikes, etc.
If the Autorouter disappeared, we would all be right up the sh1t creek. Well, there is Rocketroute but it is, IIRC, over 200 quid a year and not as good.
Peter wrote:
That is not necessary. We are talking about just technology after all. Do you buy a phone which is made by Europeans, for Europeans?
In software development terms, it is easy to expose user interface features according to the locale, etc.
I don’t agree. I don’t any have trust in an American having the will to read and understand this admittedly crazy document and implement it in their software. So far, I have been proven right in my stance.
@ Jason: I intentionally chose my words to make the point. So far, I have been proven right.
I cannot see much of a European footprint in the product, despite the alleged “involvement” of AviationCloud.
One doesn’t really need to read and implement that entire document local copy
What one needs to do is recruit a number of experienced European IFR pilots who know how IFR in Europe works.
I am very happy to help, as I have helped various aviation software companies in the past with testing and/or feature input (e.g. Autoplan, FlightPlanPro, Skydemon, Autorouter…) but you have to sign an NDA, and I would not sign it due to some of its terms, despite having no business involvement in aviation. And I suspect not many others can.
I am sure FF have a lot of it worked out already. They can already develop routes and file flight plans. They must have the AFTN + IFPS VPN interfaces all sorted out.
boscomantico wrote:
I cannot see much of a European footprint in the product, despite the alleged “involvement” of AviationCloud.
I know for a fact their routing engine in Europe comes from the Danes. I am not suggesting it is perfect or the same as AR, but it is true. So it is not alleged.
Guys, i don‘t like where this discussion is running to.
Everybody might use the map and/or planning and/or routing-filing tool he likes most. And maybe some will use several tools anyway, because each has some strength and some weakness, and sometimes using them together i.e. making the autorouter routing and putting it into FF is better then to use the FF routing engine.
I do read this thread to get some more insights in problems someone had while using it in flight or during planning to avoid running in the same trap if a workaround exists, I read this thread because I might be able to help with some advices because I‘m using FF. And I appreciate it to read from @Josh_Tahmasebi_ForeFlight because it gives me the feeling, that our experiences and wishes are heard and will be integrated somewhen. And my impression regarding the monthly updates of the app is, that they are working hard to cover as many of the wishes as possible step by step. Thanks to you FF guys.
But as they never will cover everybody’s very personal needs, we should focus on helping us as far as we can by ourselves and ask them to implement our needs professionally without blaming someone of the FF team i.e. for being not interested in european documents, rules or habits. This is in my opinion neither proofed nor motivating the FF developers to continue the dialog with experienced pilots on this forum.
Each to their own. I have yet to see any changes which make FF suitable for VFR use but will look again when JMFDVFR is withdrawn in January.
I appreciate you view. I, for one, certainly don’t point out these defciencies to be mean, but because the hope is that these people will wake and get their act together, to get the app to a point where it can indeed be a full, one-stop shop solution for VFR and/or IFR (currently it isn’t for either).
The reason is a) that autorouter might not be around for ever (for the flight_planning_/ briefing part) and even if it is, it is good to have a good backup. And for in-flight, b) their offering (in connection with terminal charts functionality) might indeed be financially attractive for some.
And they have to do that if they really want to capture the majority of the market here (as in the US), and not only the FF fanboys who are loyal to the product because of good experiences in the US.
They have to get some real expertise in from people from really understand practical VFR and pracical IFR flying in (all of) Europe.
It all wouldn’t be that bad if the app were still officially in open beta, free of charge for the users. But it has been on the market for a couple of years now, at full price…
If the FF app acquires the MFDVFR charts, that will make it a pretty good basic moving map app.
IMHO MFDVFR had the best charts of all flying apps; it was just very basic in its functionality so SD always looked “more impressive” and at some €300 was too expensive to make any progress in the market (yes, I know the €300 also gets you the top secret German VFR AIP 
). Consequently, for UK VFR I still fly with Oziexplorer running the “real printed” CAA 1:500k chart and for the very occassional VFR outside the UK I run the same app with other charts (I normally have current ones for FR DE CH) and with the last edition (2013) of the Jepp VFR charts for emergency use elsewhere. But if FF integrates the MFDVFR charts and still costs €100/year that will be a great app. If I lost my IR I would buy MFDVFR instantly, just for its charts.
I don’t need the other nonsense. Most SD users don’t understand that app in detail, anyway. Well, airspace warnings are good 
– does FF do that, with audio coming out of a headset socket?
One can understand FF going for the VFR market first. In Europe it is about 95-99% of the traffic.
