I am looking at/toying with the idea of finding an aircraft for a very small syndicate (myself and definitely one other and potentially a couple more that we can trust).
Primary mission is to be able to carry four adults between 1.5 and 2 hours with reserves. Light IFR capability is a must.
As we all know there are very few 4 seat aircraft capable of carrying 4 adults and fuel. One which seems to fit the bill and I have flown is the Robin DR400 160/180 versions and the same aircraft with the 155 diesel. Downsides are the need to have a hanger, but this keeps any aircraft in much better condition. Upsides are that it seems to fit the mission profile whilst remaining non-complex.
This is not an immediate project, but something I aim to fulfil in the next 18-24 months, but it is nice to start looking at options to explore the feasibility.
Budget has not been set, but I am thinking something in the ball park of 60K GBP and potentially north of this if the extra spend brings some specific benefit.
Any other suggestions of aircraft to fit the bill?
Has to be a Bonanza, older model, either a 33, or 35. Plenty of superb deals in the US, for suitable airframes, with good avionics suite. I am very biased by the way 
I do love the Bonanza and it will definitely remain on the list. Any ideas on the maintenance overhead for the prop and gear? This will be the first experience of certified aircraft ownership, but I think there is a lot of experience on EuroGA to learn from.
Plenty of superb deals in the US, for suitable airframes
Aircraft prices in the US have been on the high side the latest years, especially with the USD/EUR almost parity. I believe that finding a good plane for a very good price in Europe is the way to go these days. There are, for sure less opportunities, but if you are patient, you will be able to find what you want on the market.
Many of he “normal” four seaters can carry four persons if you only want to fly 2 hours (180hp PA28s come to mind, particularly the older ones).
The problem is that not every place has Avgas, so for these flights, you must have 4h+ on board.
Also, the problem in Europe is that we have lots and lots of short (grass) runways, which eventually will be a problem with 4 POB in summer, even if you are within MTOW.
A C182 will do that very well, but of course, it is not that great in the miles per gallon discipline.
This is what makes the DR400/180 quite appealing.
Useful load of 490kg would mean full fuel, the 4 adults I have in mind with not an insignificant amount left for luggage. This looks like around 4hrs fuel with an hour reserve at 75% power. Evidently one would not be departing out of small grass strips like that.
I have done some long distance touring in a P28R which without a decent fuel totaliser we reckoned on 3hrs flying with 1hr reserve. That is probably a little conservative but not far off. Useful load is marginally lower too so with the same load on board you do only have 3 and a bit hours fuel.
AVGas availability in terms of locations and in the long term is why the diesel might be worth a look. Useful load is lower, but the fuel consumption is also lower so the same mission could be achieved in principle.
My R172K will carry 4 and near enough full tanks. Cruise 125K and about 37 litres per hour AVGAS. 200 ltr tanks gives 5 hours to empty.
Piper Archer? Not the latest one.
WB, this of course is the time old discussion on which aircraft, for mission xyz. It has been done to death on every forum, and I would not get into it here. However,
1. The purchase of any asset is the easy part. The ongoing maintenance and upkeep costs are the gotcha.
2. The more complex, the more money that has to be fed out.
3. In a syndicate, each of the partners, may very well wish for differing things. Let your watchword be, take care.
4. A true four seater, with fuel, is a hungry beast, financially, and whilst the Robin may tick a few boxes, cruise speed?
5. You say light IFR, which means, in my book, distance. For distance, you really want speed…….
6. You asked about the Bo. If I do 80 hours per annum, I reckon, all in, about 20k a year. That is just short of the UK average wage. A frightening amount of money. That does not include an engine pot.
7. No, I would look very carefully at what you want to do, what you want to do it in, and is this the best way to do it.
As you point out, vast experience on this forum on aircraft ownership, of all differing types. You will learn a great deal.
Beech – you’re correct and I don’t want to open a ‘this is better than that because of this’ thread as these tend to turn out to be on other forums. I was just looking for a few suggestions, I can do my own analysis on the relative merits of each and when the time comes I will be sure to share.
I am in a syndicate right now on a purely VFR machine, which wasn’t something I entered into lightly; it has worked out well but is of course much simpler since the aircraft is only really good at one thing, which is really fair weather VFR. My main reason for trying to avoid a ‘complex aircraft’ is to keep the costs sensible and reduce the number in the group. Ideally it will be a partnership, but potentially we may bring someone else in after some careful vetting, which will definitely ensure they understand that the aircraft will be maintained fit for IFR.
Light IFR for me means something capable of flying shorter IFR trips at lower EuroControl levels in reasonable weather – we never have to go anywhere, BA does that well. Most trips with 4 onboard will be sub 2 hours, which remains comfortable enough for 4 people in a small aircraft. Longer legs should be possible with just 2 ‘pilots’. Ie. the aircraft needs to be partner friendly for 4 of us to go to the Channel Islands/Northern France/Southern UK but capable of longer trips when we are being adventurous, minus partners.
Suggestions so far have been helpful. The Archer II does seem to be quite the load carrier.
