Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Gliders can fly IFR / IMC - really?

I just got this circular by email. In the context, “IFR” is anything which is not VFR so an aircraft closer than 1000ft vertically to a cloud (above 3000ft or whatever the rule is) is IFR. However a plain PPL holder cannot fly IFR… But also the sentence “However, it is also true that glider pilots can operate under IFR and fly closer to cloud than 1500m/1000ft, i.e. fly in IMC.” does not hang together logically because IMC is only inside a cloud.
.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Gliders can fly IFR / IMC – really?

I am not overly familiar with glider licensing rules, but in Hungary there is a “cloud flying rating” for sailplane pilots and pilots having this regularly (and presumably legally) fly in clouds.

Hajdúszoboszló LHHO

Google this in German and immediately found an EASA cloud flying rating and it’s comparison to the old German one (Wolkenflugberechtigung). I thought the SPL license was also EASA?

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

Yes, advanced glider pilots do in cloud flying, there is even a special rating for it. IFR SEP pilots who have a glider licence are allowed to fly in clouds too. The idea is to use the strong updrafts in CU and even TCU clouds.

In Sweden we even have a couple of seasonal(May to October or similar) restriction areas that are there for this kind of flying alone. They are pretty big but rarely used these days AFAIK.

ESSZ, Sweden

Yes, and I’ve done it. It wasn’t much fun so it’s not something I made a habit of.

Clubs where it’s more common usually will have at least an electric AI and turn and bank.

Last Edited by alioth at 31 May 18:10
Andreas IOM

Peter wrote:

I just got this circular by email. In the context, “IFR” is anything which is not VFR so an aircraft closer than 1000ft vertically to a cloud (above 3000ft or whatever the rule is) is IFR. However a plain PPL holder cannot fly IFR… But also the sentence “However, it is also true that glider pilots can operate under IFR and fly closer to cloud than 1500m/1000ft, i.e. fly in IMC.” does not hang together logically because IMC is only inside a cloud.

IMC is when you are below VMC minima. Flying closer than 1000 ft vertically to a cloud (above the highest of 1000 AGL/3000 MSL in class F/G and always in class A-E) is certainly IMC — even if you’re not inside the cloud.

In many countries glider pilots have concessions to fly IFR up to the cloud base without having a cloud flying rating.

So the sentence hangs together perfectly well.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

The problem in a glider is to find out how far you are from the base of cloud – especially early in the day when each cloud might have a different base. And all glider pilots are trying to use the lift underneath the cloud as much as they can. Once you get 100 below, it’s clear but to evaluate 1200 or 800 ft is almost impossible.
So the message for others – don’t expect the 1000 ft just below base of cumulus to be glider free and avoid as much as you can.

LKKU, LKTB

In some countries (e.g. Switzerland), the airspace authorities were very smart to designate certain airspace areas in class E, which are not technically restricted or prohibited (you can enter without clearance or checking their activation), but you are warned (if you READ the stuff) that gliders (of all sorts, speeds and materials) may be actually LEGALLY flying within 1500m/300m from the clouds. That is a very pragmatic and clever way of dealing with the issue. All glider pilots I know have at least once climbed much closer than 300 m to the cloud base. Some have even done it more than once. When I fly in convective days, I try to avoid thermal areas under the clouds like the plague. They are the most dangerous part of the airspace, in my opinion.

CenturionFlyer
LKLT

This was discussed elsewhere and a number of glider pilots commented they often operate in imc. It is common to see gliders in situations that dont meet the “normal” vfrs.

I find little to justify their exception especially as they usually rely on flarm, if, infact they transpond at all. At the best of times they are hard enough to spot as it is.

22 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top