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Got the license, how to build up experience and confidence?

I recently got my next license and I now have a CPL with ATPL theory, SEP, MEP, IR (on MEP), Night and Aerobatics. So I am legally allowed to fly a lot of things but I only have 320 hours so my experience is still pretty low.

I’ve done my training mainly in Switzerland with some flights in southern Germany and a few in eastern France. These are all well organized places, with a lot of information on the internet, official publications, support from all apps, etc. Also in Switzerland and Germany I could always handle all questions in English or German.

In the recent years, since I got my PPL, I’ve always been reluctant to fly outside of the German speaking part of Switzerland. This reluctance is an internal feeling which I recognize and try to overcome, not something that I decide on. I recognize some of the issues I have like the languages, different rules in other countries, lack of organization and charts. But the biggest issue I have is that I haven’t practically seen different aspects of flying, like:

  • I’ve only flown in a couple of countries.
  • I’ve never flown above FL100 (except for the occasional flight at 12,000ft for 15 minutes around a mountain).
  • I’ve never used oxygen, neither a fixed system, nor a portable one.
  • I’ve never flown over water.
  • I’ve never had an overnight stay at an airport.
  • I’ve almost never had to refuel outside of my home airport and never outside of Switzerland.
  • I’ve never had to handle a “difficult” airport in terms of contacting them, discussing questions with people who don’t speak English well, requesting services from airports that do not answer emails and phones, etc.

All those topics and other similar ones require practical and theoretical knowledge that I don’t have (or I’ve forgotten because I never needed it). These things are (unfortunately) not included in any training that I’ve done and I sometimes have no idea how to go about them.

As additional information, I currently only rent planes and don’t have one with an oxygen system available. Additional equipment (e.g. for water crossing) is also a challenge but doable.

So my question is what I can do to gather some more experience and confidence. I was looking at possibilities to fly with other pilots but it seems difficult to find pilots willing to do so (at least in eastern Switzerland). What would your recommendation be on how to go about that? How did you reach your current state (especially those of you flying a lot and in many different countries like @Peter, @achimha, @boscomantico, @Flyer59)?

Last Edited by Vladimir at 14 Jul 18:44
LSZH, LSZF, Switzerland

First a question, before starting to answer: What are your intentions? You certainly didn’t get that ATPL just to hang it in a frame over your desk…
If you want to fly commercially, don’t think twice. You will sit next to an (more or less) experienced captain for the next 1,500 hours and will learn all that while getting paid!

EDDS - Stuttgart

See what I’m doing. I am curious by nature, have worked and lived in many different countries outside Europe and am asking a lot of questions and doing research at places like EuroGA. Flying happens to be a useful tool for my work, which has nothing to do with aviation but needs transportation. So I have a need to learn the stuff, am lucky that I can do it and it is fun. That’s not much different from someone who wants to take his brand new car from Germany to eg. Italy on a Friday where he will be surrounded by thousands of scooters. I did that when I was 20+.

Frequent travels around Europe

There is no general “recipe” for “learning to fly” (in the wider sense). Just go for it, step by step.

Do some preparation (read on places like this one, study different AIPs, read trip reports, etc.). On the other hand: don’t overdo it with that preparation. At a certain point, one just has to go. Most people made their first experiences with zero preparation, and they still survived it (even though they cause a bit of havoc). Since you hang out around here, that’s already a good thing, and a big plus over the other 90%.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

what_next wrote:

What are your intentions?

Good question and I should have answered it in the very beginning. I am 37 years old so I don’t think I have good chances of getting into commercial aviation and even less of getting a descent pay in order to feed myself and my family. I did the ATPL theory because it was just a few more pages than CPL/IR and I am pretty good in learning theory. I am thinking of trying to get a part-time job in a small company or club e.g. for sightseeing flights but I am not very optimistic after seeing that much more experienced and younger pilots can’t get a job.

I would love to be able to travel for business and vacations in Europe by myself. The problem is renting – the club will never give me the plane for a week if I only fly several hours. And buying my own is unfortunately not a financially viable option.

So for the time being, I would like to keep my ratings, fly to more places, learn more, gather experience as much as possible with the time and money available.

LSZH, LSZF, Switzerland

boscomantico wrote:

Just go for it, step by step.

As I see it, a single (legal) mistake could cost me my license. Of course that’s the worst case but that’s why people learn from each other and don’t try everything by themselves.

LSZH, LSZF, Switzerland

Even if I am less experienced than some of the people you named, my answer is simple: get into the plane and fly.

I think some of the points you mentioned are trivial:
-) flying over water is not very different from flying over land, only there are less options in case the engine stops so plan B should be carefully developed
-) flying into another country is remarkable simple: there are no iron curtains marking the border, not even a dotted line painted on the ground. You just fly and likely change frequency – your nice friendly controller will often tell you when and whom to contact at what frequency

I would suggest you gradually broaden your horizon: France and Germany you have already done, next could come Belgium, Czechia which should be just as easy. UK has some differences but should still be without big surprises. Italy and Slovenia might be more demanding, but oh so rewarding. And so on… Be sufficiently ambitious, you’ll only realise half your aspirations for any given weekend anyway: there’s always some detail going wrong. Especially as you’re a renter.

BTW do not consider yourself low experienced. I was flying into France and Germany with perhaps a 100 hours solo and not even a PPL, just my whimsical ultralight license. Again, neither the air nor the ground nor ATC staff can see the difference. (and heaven knows I am not a daredevil, rather the contrary!)

About your last remark: I should think you would have to sin very very gravely to get your license withdrawn.

Last Edited by at 14 Jul 19:36
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

If you really want to go places, the there is no way around to buying at least a share of an aeroplane. Or at the very least buy a block of hours from a group with good availability and “daily” (not hourly) bookings.

Sure enough: flying say 50 hours a year in a shared aeroplane will usually not cost more than renting 50 hours from a commercial outfit.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

I am 37 years old so I don’t think I have good chances of getting into commercial aviation and even less of getting a descent pay in order to feed myself and my family.

Luckily we live in a part of the world where every dream can come true. If you really want to fly commercially, you will find a way to do that. Maybe not earn enough money to feed your family, but at least to fly on some real aeroplane where you don’t have to think about oxygen or flights over mountains or water without paying for it. One of our local competitors employs quite a few freelance pilots who work 3 or 4 days per week in their normal office job and fly one or two days for him. What he pays covers the expenses for keeping their type ratings current and gives them some pocket money for overnight stays. (I really shouldn’t promote this kind of stuff as it ruins the market for people who have to live from flying – but reality doesn’t go away by ignoring it…). I was 45 years old when I switched from part-time flying/part time office job to flying only. Everything is possible! But age counts more than flying hours, especially privately flown single-engine time which is not what employers want to see.

EDDS - Stuttgart

Jan_Olieslagers wrote:

flying over water is not very different from flying over land, only there are less options in case the engine stops so plan B should be carefully developed

E.g. equipment is another difference that I only know exists but not the details.

Jan_Olieslagers wrote:

You just fly and likely change frequency – your nice friendly controller will often tell you when and whom to contact at what frequency

I’ve heard VFR, especially in Eastern Europe, is very different. For example I was recently in Bulgaria and asked about VFR there and they said it it pretty bizarre there, without publications and with the military ruling over the air most of the time.

boscomantico wrote:

If you really want to go places, the there is no way around to buying at least a share of an aeroplane.

I am sure you are 100% right. I am looking into options at the moment.

what_next wrote:

One of our local competitors employs quite a few freelance pilots who work 3 or 4 days per week in their normal office job and fly one or two days for him. What he pays covers the expenses for keeping their type ratings current and gives them some pocket money for overnight stays.

What kind of company is this? Is it an airline or something smaller? Do you have an idea where to look for possible open positions like that?

LSZH, LSZF, Switzerland
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