So, let me get this right. I could install one of these in my tb20 and drive it from a Garmin 296, so long as I don’t use it on an IFR flight?
exactly -
I need to see exact detail, not vague statements. As far as the Socata angle is concerned, this has come up in their user group in the US and what is discussed here is vapourware.
It is also quite unbelievable, in the context of this discussion. You cannot even mount a 296 or similar handheld, let alone an Ipad, in the panel of a certified aircraft, permanently.
For a homebuilt, sure, no problem. Could you drive an autopilot from an Ipad? Of course you could.
Another thing is that people promoting products or services need to disclose any commercial involvement they have, preferably in their profile. Otherwise, we end up with people pushing something in an apparently objective manner.
Local copies of above PDFs:
Approved_GPS_List_Rev_C_186_pdf
1006001_Rev_C_Avionics_Compatibility_List_pdf
Peter wrote:
You cannot even mount a 296 or similar handheld, let alone an Ipad, in the panel of a certified aircraft, permanently.
Actually, in an EASA aircraft with MTOM less than 2 721 kg, you can by CS-STAN.
With an autopilot connection, in an aircraft not restricted to VFR on its TC (which is nearly all ICAO certified aircraft)?
You can mount these in the holder. The holder can be fixed and wired up.
My iPad Mini panel mounting provision is two one inch RAM mounts screwed to non-structural areas on each side of the panel, symmetrically. Works great, points the screen right at the pilot and/or passenger with air vent blowing on the back. Installed as a minor mod with appropriate A&P mechanic logbook entry.
The same ball mounts could be used for a portable, dedicated aviation GPS but the iPad works better when installed carefully.
Power is from a panel accessory power plug, using a cigar lighter USB and cable that is non-permanently routed so as to be almost invisible.
Peter wrote:
With an autopilot connection, in an aircraft not restricted to VFR on its TC (which is nearly all ICAO certified aircraft)?
Of course not, but you wrote. “You cannot even mount … permanently.” And you can.
Silvaire wrote:
My iPad Mini panel mounting provision is two one inch RAM mounts screwed to non-structural areas on each side of the panel, symmetrically. Works great, points the screen right at the pilot and/or passenger with air vent blowing on the back. Installed as a minor mod with appropriate A&P mechanic logbook entry.
We had the same kind of permanent mount done — with an USB charging port. The avionics guy went a bit overboard even making an AFMS for the mount, with weight limitations for the attached tablet — but I think he just thought it was fun.
We may be splitting hairs, but AIUI there does exist a regulatory path for permanently mounting the mount.
This has existed for some time under both FAA and EASA (as well as of course done unofficially since for ever). I have the Aera 660 mount in the yoke. The previous Garmin 296/496 mount was in there under both G-reg and later during the DAR inspection when going N-reg, in 2005.
I do not believe there is a regulatory path for screwing the actual handheld (non TSO / non ETSO) GPS into the panel – in an aircraft with an ICAO CofA and whose TC permits IFR.
Various exceptions have appeared over the years. For example one US pilot posted on some US site some years ago that he got his FSDO to sign off a Field Approval for something like a Garmin 695 to go straight into the panel, flush mounted etc. The situation was “taken apart” and as far as anyone could tell, the FSDO inspector simply made a mistake.
Other exceptions are where the manufacturer has certified a non TSO GPS under his own TC authority. There is one European model (can’t recall which, but it is VFR only) which has a Garmin non cert unit.
I am fairly sure the same thing applies to consumer tablets. The mount should be ok to affix.
Previous thread with some pointers, and some good detail.
A search with a term like
handheld AND GPS AND mount*
digs out various similar threads.
Peter wrote:
I do not believe there is a regulatory path for screwing the actual handheld (non TSO / non ETSO) GPS into the panel – in an aircraft with an ICAO CofA and whose TC permits IFR.
I guess it is all a matter of interpretation. CS-STAN excerpts:
Standard Change CS-SC052b INSTALLATION OF GNSS EQUIPMENT
1. Purpose
Installation or exchange of a GNSS equipment to enhance situational awareness. This also includes moving map GNSS based functions….
….
This SC does also not cover the connection of the GNSS equipment to any kind of AFCS nor to ADS-B OUT system
The only requirements on the GPS are:
— the design of the equipment installation must take into account crashworthiness, arrangement and visibility, and should not interfere with other equipment, the canopy jettison (if applicable), and the emergency exit;
— data connectivity with the installed equipment and other equipment which is:
• required by TCDS, AFM or POH,
• required by other applicable requirements such as those for operations and airspace, or
• mandated by the respective MEL, if this exists,
is not allowed unless the equipment being installed is explicitly listed by its manufacturer as compatible equipment to be connected to;
— the equipment is suitable for the environmental conditions to be expected during normal operation;
— the equipment must be installed and tested in accordance with the equipment manufacturers’ instructions.
There are no references to (E)TSOs or any other standards. So my interpretation is that this covers permanent installations of handheld GPSs or even iPads.
