Airborne_Again wrote:
That’s very high from my perspective. Are you talking about commercial rates?its quite hard to go any lower than 150 with typical 100-200hour year flying
200(100) hours per year:
150 per hour
-50 per hour mogas
-10 eur landing fee
-insurance – 1500/200 = 7.5 (15)
-CAMO – 1200/200 = 6 (12)
-hangar cost – 6 months @300eur (winter, hangared) + 6 months @30 eur (summer, airport parking) = 9 eur/h (18)
- 2x 50h inspection = 1000, 2x 100h inspection = 2000 (if nothing needs replacement) = 3000/200 => 15 eur/h (15)
total 150 – 50 -10 -7.5 -6 -9 -15 = 52.5 eur left per hour for 200hour/year or (90-15-12-18-15) or 30 eur for 100hour/year.
Seems OK, but my last annual was 6K – replaced all hoses, 8.33 installation, so this year’s “profits” will only cover the annual’s cost. In two years the muffler needs to be replaced (4K), magnetos need to be inspected etc, meaning very little is left for engine fund or avionics upgrades.
ivark wrote:
its quite hard to go any lower than 150 with typical 100-200hour year flying
Ok, if you include landing fees and hangarage and leave a substantial amount for unexpected events, then I can understand…
Another factor with wet rental is that most will fly full rich which burns about 30% more fuel than necessary, and since fuel is the biggest part of the DOC… but if you renting out to anyone then you can’t do much about this, whereas someone renting dry can be smarter and can control this.
Peter wrote:
I am told that the only reasonably sure way to get a job in the present market
In my experience a significant proportion of fATPL integrated students are getting job offers these days, before completing their IR. Yes a very small percentage may washout in line training, but these are proper offers from well known airlines.
The others are usually hired within a few months of completing their MCC/JOC.
The training industry in Europe can’t keep up with the natural retirement/transfer to Asia/ME/morbidity of the existing pilot population.
The self help modular route is more hit and miss, but most candidates get jobs, albeit paying their dues on ATRs or Dash-8s.
I know people have done it – a friend of mine who at about 32 years old went the full integrated route via British Airways, a friend in the US in his 40s who did it the traditional way, and a couple of friends from our gliding club who went the modular route at a young age (18-20).
My friend who went the BA integrated route is now an A320 captain. He said that there were about 1000 applicants for each place, but I got the impression that anyone dedicated enough and who could do GCSE level mathematics would get through to the next stage (in other words, a minority – the starry eyed get screened out pretty quick). No one on his course washed out. The BA pilot programme takes applicants up into their early 50s.
The guy in the US who went the DIY route is now a training captain. He came from a software engineering background and is smart, dedicated, and also a great teacher. His wife (a software engineer too) basically financed him. He did a lot of his multiengine hours in their own Twin Comanche flying on trips to places.
The modular guys over here haven’t fared well at all despite their young age and enthusiasm. Neither of them is flying for a living at the moment despite vast pots of money spent, although one does have an airline dispatch job and the Bank of Mum and Dad is financing his Cherokee 140. I’ve lost touch with the first guy (last it looked like he was about to get married), but I suspect the second guy is also not destined for the airlines as I overheard his parents at the pub the other night talking about him and considering selling the Cherokee 140 as no flying job prospects seem to be anywhere near the horizon.
I know several who got jobs in last few years and the general sentiment is that it’s not too hard. Most fly with a Hungarian airline. Only problem is that as soon as they get promoted to captain, they have to relocate to Kutaisi or Luton if they’re lucky and have to wait on a list to come back home.
Oh my, should I left this post sink in the depth of euroga. 
This been said, I know since some months that the hardest will be finding a job after the CPL/IR, and I came to know several pilots that have actually a hard time to find a job. Most of them are not paid enough and would better cook burger on the corner’s KFC… Being instructor pays a bit less, but you know the calendar and they are treated as instructor and not dead meat.
Generally speaking, the students that getting out of integrated cursus (here) are finding jobs easily around the work, but most of them are less than 25 and are ready to go far and get low payouts for some time – they have time… And given the price of the cursus (~80K€), the parents are backing up.
For me, it may be air taxy, turboprops and bizjet if I get lucky – and prepared to be ready on call, but the one I see going this way are instructors that can build around 1K to 2k hours up, which is something I consider.
For the plane locally, I have found few stuff by looking for more closely on the tarmac. I have actually arrow4 around 260€/h, one is going to be IFR PBN ready soon. The other one is already IFR, and I have been proposed a co-property on this that would lower the cost to 180~200€/h for a limited number of hours /year.
Of course, buying a P38 or a C150 would make sense to spend hours in it the cheapest way.
I’ll keeping building hours for the moment.
mktime wrote:
The cheapest i think is a DA40 G1000 for 260€/h + 20% VAT
I know these ones ;). If you are a lucky students of this school, you won’t pay vat as it’s qualified as knowledge maintenance…
Snoopy wrote:
Working as a pilot will cure your love for flying :(
I hope not.
It’s all personal feeling but I understand what you mean by that. I think it’s all a matter of your relation to aviation, and the condition you practice it.Actually I know some that runs ATR in airline as captain or SIC and they are not cured at all, even if they thanks god when they dive out of FIKI with a frozen plane.
For sure if I come to that, I will change my mind.
Emir wrote:
You forgot 0.2 trillion ex-military pilots who love flying, retired at 25 and have knowledge and skills to ace exams and type rating and have nothing else to do for next 40 years.
Well, maybe not 25, but 30s. They also have their monetary needs covered by their military pension, so they can fly for peanuts.
Hmmmm, as a recipient of a military pension, I’m intrigued by the peanuts statement.
I had three F16 pilots in their 30s in ATPL theory course and can confirm they do work for little money here in Poland. They’re not looking to work for peanuts as they have families, but EUR 2k monthly would be an improvement from what I gathered.
