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National CAA policies around Europe on busting pilots who bust controlled airspace (and danger areas)

One has to ask why the guy in that AOPA magazine report wanted to be anonymous. After all, Gasco know exactly who you are because they tick off your name when you walk into the room. And the CAA guy knows exactly who was sent to which Gasco session. The only realistic reason is to avoid a perceived risk of reprisal (revenge) by the CAA guy, if this pilot is caught infringing again. This is a very poor climate in which a regulator should be operating, if ostensibly trying to educate rather than punish. Notably, practically everybody else who has been sent down to Gasco is also keeping their mouth firmly shut.

I think you are reading too much into this Peter. No one in his right mind would want his name blathered all over the press and the internet following an infringement or any other kind of wrongdoing.

Egnm, United Kingdom

@flybymike they do in the US…
See here
Not for fame or fortune, but because they care enough about other pilots that they want to share their story, and it is of help to others.

@Peter that video scratches on things I’ve said for years, but never could quantify, only qualify.
I really hope it takes over…

Off_Field wrote:

I would guess “unable due controller workload”

Would guess? Has anyone actually tried?

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

Has anyone actually tried?

As far as I’m aware no one has organised such an event getting everyone to request services

A Euroga “Area51” type event?

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

September busts numbers are up now

and clearly UK GA is getting suitably scared – despite discussion of this topic having been squashed on the main UK aviation chat site

But what really struck me about all these numbers is this

ONE getting training (presumably this one shut some airport down for half an hour, or whatever) and the rest are all getting a PUNISHMENT. Well, 6 got let off, 4 of them would have chucked their training in instantly if they got dragged through the processing.

Yet, any mention of “punishment” makes the personalities involved go totally berserk. I’ve had no less than four “invitations” for a “talk” at Gatwick, from the guy [legal action threatened if name mentioned] who runs this whole scheme. They just don’t “get it”. They think busting 100% of busts is going to improve flying accuracy.

It would be fun to chuck in an FOIA request on the numbers of nontransponding (or Mode A) targets flying, which must be rising sharply in the current climate, but you would never get a reply because of the compliance workload exemptions.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Not sure I would consider the 56 warning letters as punishment.

Nympsfield, United Kingdom

Not directly, but each of those 56 would have been writing reports (one for NATS and one for the CAA), then sh*tting themselves for a number of weeks, then having got the warning letter they know their record has a black mark on it (the letter says so) and next time it will be Gasco.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

On a positive note I have had some very positive AT experiences recently.

I am more inclined to “insist” on a traffic service these days. Going around Gatwick and Heathrow on the last few occasions the service has been initially refused once due to the usual traffic density controller work load. On that occasion I mentioned I was in a twin and that I would appreciate a service, which was then granted.

I was especially impressed with Jersey zone coming back non airways. I usually negotiate the danger areas but establishing they are cold is not always quick to achieve. It is especially easy to infringe on the edge of the zone. Jersey were very quick to point out the infringement risk on the current heading which was very proactive of them. In fact I am always terribly impressed with Jersey who simply cannot be of enough help even when busy.

I must also say that negotiating anywhere around Farnborough is more fraught with risk than ever. The airspace is complicated and at reasonable speeds there isnt a lot of margin for error. The airspace requires careful planning, and, I think for anyone in doubt, if there is reason to depart from the plan seek all the help you can get from AT. I mention this because for foreign pilots and UK pilots happening to come that way you may find the airspace much more challenging than you imagine.

Not exactly CAA, but ATS. Looks like we have it good over here…

N4041H, Kraków Information
N4041H
QNH 1015
QNH1015, N4041H

The Mooney really doesn’t loose altitude like the club Cessnas, and in a descent at 180 knots the ground moves fast… He wanted to make sure I knew where I was, I did, he saw I was handling it, that was it.

On a different flight FIS called me to make sure I wasn’t going to bust the local CTR. I wasn’t, was going for a really long final to my home field due to heavy meatbombing activity – wanted all of them on the ground when on short final.

A few more snippets from the same frequency over the last couple of weeks:
FIS: You are in the CTR, please turn around immediately
Gyro: Which way?
FIS: Fly heading 290. [that was it, no “call this number”, no “you will be shot down”, so probably no further action]

FIS: Do you want us to see about a transit? [through a TMA – they usually get you one and hand you over to the appropriate Approach frequency]
Plane: No, thank you, I’ll just pass above the TMA.
FIS: But the TMA extends to FL95 and above is controlled airspace.
Plane: Guess I better go around it then.

FIS: We will negotiate with Slovakia. [a direct cuts through Slovak airspace for 10nm or so, in Poland it is G, in Slovakia E, I think, so not controlled for VFR but he was crossing a border (without a FPL, the horror!)]
Plane: Thanks.
FIS: Transit approved, proceed current heading.
Plane: Thanks.

It was a beautiful and thus very busy weekend, yet the FIS guys were top notch, as always. They made sure people didn’t bust controlled airspace by calling them out ahead of time, making routing suggestions on request, negotiated transits, relayed weather info, asked for PIREPs where they didn’t have local met data, basically went way above and beyond. Kudos to them, if they are reading, they know who they are.

tmo
EPKP - Kraków, Poland
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