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National CAA policies around Europe on busting pilots who bust controlled airspace (and danger areas)

This is concerning; it indicates a potential “us and them” divide between pilots and ATC.

In reality we should be a team, not adversaries. We both want the same outcome; to get from one point to another without hitting another aircraft. Pilots and ATC should be eager and willing to work together to achieve that outcome, not a “pilot vs sky police”. Especially Solent, which now has bugger all traffic compared to before March.

The Manchester LLR is bumpy more because it tends to be very thermic on a nice day, rather than orographic turbulence. (I went through it a couple of weeks ago, it was as smooth as anything although there was some wind, but it was overcast and fairly cold).

Andreas IOM

alioth wrote:

This is concerning; it indicates a potential “us and them” divide between pilots and ATC.

I think for many GA pilots it’s no longer “potential”.

In reality we should be a team, not adversaries. We both want the same outcome; to get from one point to another without hitting another aircraft. Pilots and ATC should be eager and willing to work together to achieve that outcome, not a “pilot vs sky police”. Especially Solent, which now has bugger all traffic compared to before March.

Yep, and the keyword is “should”.

EGTR

Peter wrote:

Another one is from Biggin who MORd a Spitfire being towed by a tug along a taxiway…

For what?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Given the little traffic these days, presumably Manchester are able to provide a controlled airspace clearance?

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Unfortunately I missed the opportunity to try it; when I got no reply from Liverpool the other day, I switched to Manchester and set the FMC in the transponder, but didn’t think to actually try calling them instead! (and the extra few hundred feet higher would have been useful).

Andreas IOM

I was in formation going down the low level corridor, I think in early September. was monitoring and had the listening squawk on, I tend to go low down the llr, with a bit of speed and to one side. I was called out by callsign by the manchester controller, and my heart rather sank (I thought I was safely clear). He was just calling to let me know about traffic heading in the other direction above me. I thought it was very nice of him to do that and it was appreciated.

October “sentencing” data is out

Trends as previous months.

The suspensions suggest that you do get suspended if you infringe post-gasco (something denied by CAA people) and the “safety impact” is probably meaningless because anything within the huge 5nm/5000ft (figures vary) cylinder is regarded as having a safety impact.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I dont follow one aspect of the numbers.

If three were repeat infringers, and 3 had their licenses suspended, are these the same 3, and if they are, does it suggest once they have attended the AIAC their licence will be unsuspended, or they will do the course again and their licence will be suspended for some other predetermined time?

It’s a very good Q.

The people behind this have always denied that anybody got gasco on the first offence, but most of the people in the room when I did it were first-timers!

So I think these 3

are perhaps people who got a warning letter previously, whereas the 3 lines immediately above it are first time offenders who went straight to gasco.

The biggest missing thing in all this “data” is where and when and what happened. This prevents people learning from it, while it succeeds in making the CAA infringements guy look quite aggressive. I guess one could study the MOR listings (which aren’t public but lots of people have access) and work out some of these, but it’s tricky because the MOR listings are clearly incomplete. An ATCO is required to MOR every infringement, yet only of the order of 10-20% of them are in the listings which just magically happen to end up in my inbox. However the hotspots are fairly obvious from the MOR listings.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Fuji_Abound wrote:

If three were repeat infringers, and 3 had their licenses suspended, are these the same 3

I read it as a different “3”
And also different to the 3 who got practical training.

On a different note, not sure how you can suspend an invalid licence. Maybe only some part of the licence were invalid.

Nympsfield, United Kingdom
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