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National CAA policies around Europe on busting pilots who bust controlled airspace (and danger areas)

3593 Posts

05-Sep-21 09:44

JohnR wrote:

A moment later the call came from a D registered aircraft asking for descent to remain VMC.

“Busted!” (c) :)))

EGTR

05-Sep-21 11:12

That is so funny, on multiple levels

Brits are frequently criticised for VFR in IMC but nobody else admits to doing it on a European forum.

Administrator

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

05-Sep-21 14:43

A great result for UK pilots who have had a very unfair treatment from the CAA guy in charge of busts policy.

Secretary of Transport Grant Shapps says the CAA should not be “the judge, the jury and the executioner” and that an independent panel for appeals may be operational by March

In an exclusive interview with Pilot, the Secretary for Transport, Grant Shapps has revealed that appeals against CAA procedures will no longer be handled by the CAA itself, but by an independent body. Shapps, who spoke to Pilot at the LAA Rally in Sywell, said “I don’t think [the CAA] should be the judge, the jury and the executioner”.

At the moment, if pilots are not satisfied with the way the CAA is handling investigation, sanctions and ultimately prosecution, they can only appeal to the CAA itself, or escalate the case (at a significant cost) by going through regular court proceedings. Shapps said this needs to change, since “the appeal goes back to the same person who made the original decision. We want to make sure that there is a proper and fair execution of justice” through implementing a new system, where complaints and appeals would go “an independent panel, not in the CAA”.

The issue has become increasingly more important over the last few years, as numerous pilots found themselves issued with Mandatory Occurrence Reports (MORs) for airspace infringements. The process has been often perceived as unfair and not transparent by the General Aviation community, and in a detailed investigation (‘Infringement Injustice’, November 2020 edition) Pilot chronicled some of those problems.

In one instance that we examined, an experienced display pilot deviated from his course to maintain safe VFR conditions, but was nonetheless sanctioned by the CAA and was not given the possibility to explain his action. On another occasion a CAA officer was taped threatening “licensing action” on a first call to a professional pilot, who was eventually acquitted of all wrongdoing. In a third instance another pilot reported that an ‘interview’ turned into a two-and-a-half hour interrogation that covered his entire flying career of more than forty years.

Shapps said the independent appeal body could be operational by March 2022, and that the Department for Transport has "been working on this for quite some time”

A super result, the work of a Dutch lawyer Jaap Rademaker, who has been doing a lot of this for no payment. He has already achieved a success in a civil court case where in an interim verdict a judge has already set aside all the preliminary demands of the CAA (who tried to have the case thrown out, and which included amongst others declaring the civil judge not competent; and having the view that the costly judicial review was the only route available).

Administrator

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

20-Sep-21 20:26

Looking at the big increase in the % of warning letters, I reckon Grant Shapps’ rattling of the cage of the “CAP1404 team” is having an effect

Still, bear in mind that anyone who gets a letter, and does something (anything) again within 2 years, gets gasco.

DAs are enforced more than ever before

Administrator

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

20-Sep-21 22:07

@Peter, any idea how someone has been able to bust UIR in Jan 2021?! :)

EGTR

21-Sep-21 06:26

I found some UIR charts but can’t quickly find the vertical limits. Is it FL200+? A lot of bizjet pilots have been busted – the first guy I bumped into in the gasco “course” was a CAA IR examiner who got that – for various things related to do with expecting a handover which didn’t come until too late, for the speed.

As an aside, does any other country in Europe publish stats like the UK does? Bear in mind these started coming out only after some FOIA applications.

Administrator

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

21-Sep-21 06:54

I doubt if France does. Most pilots who infringe agree with ATC or whoever to write an anonymous REX so that others can learn from the error.
There might however be a figure for those who infringe a “P” zone as it usually involves waiting for the air police and an interview. I know someone it happened to, and those writing a REX all agree that its a very unpleasant and time consuming experience. @Peter you got away very lightly. Count yourself lucky.

France

21-Sep-21 07:04

Peter wrote:

I found some UIR charts but can’t quickly find the vertical limits. Is it FL200+? A lot of bizjet pilots have been busted – the first guy I bumped into in the gasco “course” was a CAA IR examiner who got that – for various things related to do with expecting a handover which didn’t come until too late, for the speed.

@Peter, FL245+ :)
Hence me wondering how it can be?