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National CAA policies around Europe on busting pilots who bust controlled airspace (and danger areas)

I am aware of my workload factors and navigation limitations as well.

If my GPS fails on-board my navigation performance eventually reduces to about +/-3nm and could be worse.

For this reason I’d much rather speak to ATC and keep squawking ALT rather than attempting to fly non-radio trying to figure it all out.

Peter wrote:

(which is what most people do)

I suppose this is what fuels mandatory EC everywhere in future.

Last Edited by James_Chan at 12 Jun 16:53

communicate in a very direct manner, including a threat to end their career?
While civilian pilots are as receptive to re-education as those represented on this thread, military pilots say “Yes, Sir!”

@Timothy this is a million miles away from how we operate a just culture through ASIMS and DASORs (the military reporting system) – military infringements are subject to a very developed open and honest investigation that solely focuses on lessons and why it happened / how to prevent recurrence. Disciplinary action would only result in cases of negligence and the test to define that (using a FAIR tool) is so rare I have never seen it. It all works really well to be honest.

Now retired from forums best wishes

Peter wrote:

(which is what most people do).


EGKB Biggin Hill

Balliol wrote:

It all works really well to be honest.

Quite, as demonstrated by the apparent improvement in stats. We are trying to do a similar thing in the civilian world, but the lines of communication and authority just aren’t there.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Peter wrote:

The only way I could be 100% sure is to go non TXP (which is what most people do).

I don’t think the flying profile in an aircraft that are non-equipped TXP will get you anywhere near busting CAS (e.g. 500ft agl, local flying, familiar area, good weather, slow speeds…)

Peter wrote:

Even if I am talking to Farnborough the whole time, and they warn me, it will be too late, because even a 10 sec clip will be reported and I will go to Gasco

If I am flying at 5000ft/200kts in low visibility and I am busting CAS, I would love to know about it in the heat of the moment whatever the consequence after landing (at least you will manage to take few pictures of GPS/SD/TXP/ALT ), so too late while flying is still better than 3 days as letter in my mailbox, obviously the sooner the better…

Last Edited by Ibra at 12 Jun 17:15
ESSEX, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

non TXP (which is what most people do).

Have you revised your stats since you swapped your TAS antennas?
Is your sample representative of the whole of UK? Your trip reports make it sound that the further inland you get is the base turn on approach to Shoreham rwy 20.

We do see SEP on flightradar24 and co. We do hear ATC asking people to sqwak. People do get traffic service.

Nympsfield, United Kingdom

I rarely see an aircraft in flight that does not appear on my TAS, whether from Mode C, Mode S or ADS-B.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Have you revised your stats since you swapped your TAS antennas

No. It improved the 12 o’clock range mostly.

South East UK, where most GA is.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Timothy wrote:

As I say, I wish you luck. You have all sorts of routes at your disposal – CAA Chair or Chief Exec, GASCo Chair or Chief Exec, Charities Commission, MPs, APPG, law courts, Press, public shaming on forums, GASCo AGM. I hope that one or a combination works for you.

and I should have said, Timothy, you are probably right, and the truth is, I dont care enough.

If I wanted to rock enough boats I could, but for what?

The honest answer is the only effective way of regaining a balance between the regulated and the regulators is a strong effective association that represents the regulated.

In most professional walks of life that exists, be it BALPA, the legal profession, or the medics, there are strong members associations. In Amercia it exists with AOPA, unfortunatey we dont have that, we have an utterly split group of representative organisations who are incapable of working together and are riddled with vested interests.

For that reason, I really do wish you Timothy the best of luck and everyone else on here doing similiar work, your approach is probably the best we will get, and is possibly the only way of going about it. Its pragmatic. I dont blame you not wanting to be associated with a more forthright position. Unfortunately I really do believe you, and the rest of us, are on to a hiding to nothing, and I have seen nothing to change my mind in many years, but I shall still wish you the best of luck and thank you for your endeavours. If you honestly dont believe you are wasting your time, that is good enough for me. You are clearly a greater optomist than me, or perhaps I am older than you and therefore just a lot more cynical.

Last Edited by Fuji_Abound at 12 Jun 19:37

We are trying to do a similar thing in the civilian world, but the lines of communication and authority just aren’t there.

Who is “we”?

I think there is plenty of “authority”, in the form of a 400 quid “day out”, imposed for, in one case I know of, a 1min 35sec CAS bust, which NATS didn’t even know about until the pilot phoned them to apologise! There’s a little lesson there, too. NEVER phone up NATS to apologise if nothing was said; there is some small chance the ATCO was being decent and let you off, but when you phone up, they dig out the radar data and he gets dropped into deep sh1t.

The CAA can also suspend or remove your license, with no oversight, no right of appeal, no transparency. That is in fact the likely next stage if you don’t properly participate on this “day out”.

Way too much virtue signalling going on here. This is getting like facebook. Aaaahhh discipline just isn’t what it used to be when we used to just court martial them and execute them by firing squad.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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