gallois wrote:
how a foreigner would know that those numbers you have ovaled in red either a) refer to altitudes or height limits of an ATZ and
They don’t. They refer to the elevation of the airfield. (Which is standard information on VFR charts.) But with this information you can deduce the upper limit of the ATZ.
b) how you know that there should be a 2 in front of three numbers and not a 1 or a 3.
You need to know that the standard upper limit of an ATZ in the UK is 2000’ above the airport. I don’t know if this info is on the chart.
Peter wrote:
No assurance of a transit, and in Class G you can’t “get a transit” anyway
Of course you can “get a transit” (in the colloquial sense). You need only to make 2 way radio contact with the ATZ (if A/G) or get basic service off an AFIS to comply with Rule 45 of the Rules of the Air, or permission if ATC. An example close to me is Blackpool – people transit Blackpool’s ATZ all the time doing sightseeing flights up the coast. They just need to ask Blackpool ATC and follow any instructions given. It is highly unlikely you’re going to get told “no” especially if you’re passing right over the top of the ATZ and not technically even in it.
It is highly unlikely you’re going to get told “no”
I agree; I’ve been flying around the UK for 19 years so I know how it works. The UK VFR chart is easy enough to read. The issue is the new one of having to allow the new margins.
With apologies to Clint Eastwood, and to the glee of the enforcers of the “new safety culture” I just don’t “feel lucky” anymore 
It’s gonna be even better when Farnborough gets Class D.
Peter wrote:
when Farnborough gets Class D.
If.
There’s a judicial review going ahead to challenge it, hopefully it’ll succeed.
I would really be interested to hear someone’s view on how the initial part of the route shown above can be flown at all without any risk of infringing either the ATZ(s) or the LTMA. Working on the assumption that the Mode C altitude is handled with 100ft resolution.
Presumably talking to Farnborough would be a cast iron immunity from prosecution clearance (to the extent that anything in Class G can be a “clearance”) to pass through the top of their ATZ.
But you can’t get that from Blackbushe. They are free to file a report on you at any time they feel like, and Farnborough Radar will be asked by the CAA to deliver their radar tapes to support it. You would have to ask for an ATZ transit and, to be sure, record the GPS and the radio.
And you can’t possibly get a clearance to pass through the bottom of the LTMA; not even from god himself. Only London Control could give you that but they don’t serve Class G traffic (except at start and end of Eurocontrol IFR flights joining or leaving CAS).
One could fly through the gaps my manually tweaking the route (e.g. via the Odiham MATZ; only the ATZ has to be legally avoided) by reference to a moving map, but that’s vulnerable to distraction.
gallois wrote:
how a foreigner would know that those numbers you have ovaled in red either a) refer to altitudes or height limits of an ATZ and b) how you know that there should be a 2 in front of three numbers and not a 1 or a 3. Is this standard on aviation charts in the UK?
This is explained in the legend. And also somewhere in the ENR section of the AIP and AD2.17 of each airfield (where btw it is not clear that it is 2000’ agl)
Are there any other gotchas we should look out for?
Most important one is that danger areas (EG-D…) with a star prefix are effectively restricted area (like *D132 on the first pic in Peter post, 3M SE of the circled 238 elevation)
The MATZ are in the same way not explicit on the chart, but as civilian we don’t care anyway.
If you use the 250k chart the CAS info are truncated above a certail level (FL50/5000ft ?)
Feather for instrument approach in class G are not necessarly representative to all the final approach path for all the runways/approaches available.
Airfield where glider winch launch is a secondary activity have a small G/2.x in the bottom right corner rather than the big G in a circle (eg Little Rissington 2 M north of the Brize Norton CTR in the second of Pete’s map extract)
Peter wrote:
I would really be interested to hear someone’s view on how the initial part of the route shown above can be flown at all without any risk of infringing either the ATZ(s) or the LTMA. Working on the assumption that the Mode C altitude is handled with 100ft resolution.
I think one has to view the Take2 initiative through a ‘where possible’ prism.
Clearly if applying it to ATZs then it is true that a number of them cannot be overflown while ‘Taking2’ from both the ATZ and the 2,500 base of the LTMA. It would only be possible for airfields with an elevation of 100’ or lower.
I normally do that route by taking the Farnborough transit just east of the 24 threshold rather than the centre of the field. This ensures you miss the Blackbushe ATZ. Another method is to climb above it which works nicely heading south, but going north there is a risk of not getting down in time for the 2,500’ step.
Ultimately this is very congested airspace, so if your requirements are to:
(a) follow the Take2 mantra with respect to all airspace including ATZs;
(b) have a set route which can be programmed and followed exactly with no jinking or other ad-hoc nav, and;
(c) not have any steps up or down for airspace
… then you will find your options pretty limited or you’ll be going the long way round!
The only thing I’d say about the HAZEL-NUBRI route is that it takes you reasonably close to Lasham. That gap between Lasham and HANKY (north east corner of Solent zone) can be infested with gliders.
I would fly EGKA MID CPT OX EGBW. Your route has the nice benefit of not going under the 2,500ft base at all. I would probably not be so concerned with having an ‘autopilot proof’ route, but that’s because neither of the aeroplanes I fly has an autopilot!
Does anybody know the policy with respect to a solo student busting airspace?
I think the latest CAA stats revealed a couple of student infringements with no action taken against the students directly.
Doubtless “words” were had with the student and their instructor/ training establishment.
Overhead Farnborough on their clearance and then a quick chink left ot right to stay outside the Bushe ATZ is entirely doable, or request a clearance from the Bushe before transitting Farnborough on box 2. I have done both many times.
