Vladimir wrote:
Living close to both Germany and France I checked this with instructors and was surprised that a lot of airports in both countries and even some big ones in Germany do require radio telephony and LPC level 4-6. Some fellow pilots have been given fat fines for not having it (if I remember the number correctly it was 10k).
In Germany I have never ever heard of compulsory LP. There was an attempt early during the LP introduction by one of the Regierungspräsidien in Germany to make LP in German compulsory but it never came to anything. Whether you need to get the German RT is another story, I know some people who did it just to be sure. But I don’t think it is compulsory. And at most German airports English is spoken by the radio operators.
In France there was a lot of confusion about it and initially quite massive threats and cases where people had to hire local pilots to fly out their airplanes. I have however up to this day not seen any proof that anyone was fined in the end. It appears that some local sherrifs overstepped their competences massively harassing those people. And as quite some instructors from Switzerland made those bad experiences they continue to be spread. After all, it was bad enough for the BAZL to actually react on it and offer french LPC due to the sudden demand in those years. They would not have done that without good reason.
While there has never been a clear statement on the issue by the DGAC, I assume the facts speak for themselfs. Unfortunately the damage was done and many people still are feeling uneasy about flying to FR only airports in France. Whether it makes sense and is safe to fly to airports where the crew does not understand the language spoken on the radio is another issue.
An example from Dole, France:
Note: ATS is not available after 4pm or so. If you are there in the evening and don’t have French radiotelephony in your license, you are not legal.
Rwy20 wrote:
Why is it always the pilots from Switzerland who keep spreading this misinformation that airfields in Germany/France/Italy/… require LP for that language?
Not my personal experience but I was told that French ramp checkers explicitly go to the airports and check HB registered aircraft. Could that be the reason?
Mooney_Driver wrote:
In Germany I have never ever heard of compulsory LP.
Based on the information from Dagmar H. (whom you probably know personally) there is a requirement at quite a few airports and she warned us to be very careful when we go to these two countries and clarify in advance if we are legal with only English radio and LP.
Yes I do know her and will ask her when I see her.
For me it is clear that I will not operate into French only airports legal or not, as it is simply unsafe to operate into an airport where you can’t understand the local traffic. For Germany, so far the only airport I know which insists on German voice is Freiburg im Breisgau and I’ve not been there, even though this might have changed by now. Our usual training airports at Leutkirch or Donaueschingen accept English without a problem.
The Swiss initiative to make English the universal language is certainly not a bad idea per se, however I was ok with the previous practice saying that on AFIS airfields it is ok to communicate either in English or in the local language (Fr, It or Ge). Interestingly, in the Eastern part of Switzerland I’ve hardly ever heard any German voice at all whereas in the French part it is common. The Southern airports are all ATC anyway so they are English by default. Therefore I think that the main hit is towards the French part where ATC was very frequently in French as well including Geneva and Sion, which are controlled airports.
At least, the FOCA offers LP and RT exams in all those languages for those who want them.
Vladimir wrote:
Note: ATS is not available after 4pm or so. If you are there in the evening and don’t have French radiotelephony in your license, you are not legal.
Where does it say that? There is no requirement in the EASA regs. that you need a French LP in your license to speak French if you also have an English LP. Of course you need to be able to speak and understand French.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
For me it is clear that I will not operate into French only airports legal or not, as it is simply unsafe to operate into an airport where you can’t understand the local traffic…. I was ok with the previous practice saying that on AFIS airfields it is ok to communicate either in English or in the local language (Fr, It or Ge).
I see that as contradiction: if you wouldn’t go to a French only airport because you find it unsafe, why do you find it OK to go to an airport where you don’t understand half of what takes place?
Vladimir wrote:
I see that as contradiction: if you wouldn’t go to a French only airport because you find it unsafe, why do you find it OK to go to an airport where you don’t understand half of what takes place?
What?
My personal choice is quite different from something which is legally allowed or not. I myself, even though I speak French fluently, would not feel safe to do that, but that is MY decicion, others appear to be fine with that. German I speak well enough to understand everything (it is my mothertonguge after all but I don’t have the German RT even if I probably could get the LP if I wanted). But I also would not speak Bulgarian in Primorsko or Sofia for instance even though I understand those guys better than some French AFIS guys… I would not be worried flying to a German only airfield but I would avoid the French ones for the simple reason that I would not feel comfortable. That is a long shot from not being able to do it legally.
This discussion has been going on for years and no binding answer was ever forthcoming… seeing how things are in Switzerland I understand that people get really nervous about legal ambiguity however. My personal opinion is well known here, I found the Swiss model to be the most suitable in as so far that English is ALWAYS allowed everywhere but lets the locals speak their language if they must. It works here.
Vladimir wrote:
An example from Dole, France:
Note: ATS is not available after 4pm or so. If you are there in the evening and don’t have French radiotelephony in your license, you are not legal.
This comes up regularly on forums. I have been living and flying in France for around 15 years. Never ever heard that I need to have a french qualification in my licence to fly to a “Fr only” aerodrome from any french Instructor, Examiner or pilot. The reason for this is that there is no way to get such a qualification!!
I speak French, I understand French, I fly to “Fr only” aerodromes. I dont pitch up to “Fr Only” aerodromes and speak English on the radio….
Regards, SD..
I recommend a search for
fr AND endorsement
I believe the rules are
Whether it has been possible to get a “FR endorsement” or “DE endorsement” is subject to varying opinions and reports over the years. This post from @bordeaux_jim is contrary to what most think, for example. Reading that thread you can see it is complicated if you really want to work out the situation.
Actually, the only way is to get your PPL in France in French, then the DGAC will put French LP for life on your license.
Note that in this case, you would need to get the English LP added by taking the FCL0.55 exam. And if it is a French license, the only way to get the level 6 is to take the exam via the DGAC (everybody knows that the French adminstration level in English is so high that only them can evaluate someone’s English!).
