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Apollo 11

Michael_J wrote:

get a good explanation to how a B767 can fly at 1000 feet at 510 kts without breaking up

Using TAS = CAS and flying at 0ft at ISA

  • 510kt is Mach 0.77 and well below the Mmo (max operating mach number) of 0.86, so no issues there
  • it is well above the maximum operating airspeed of 360 KCAS (equivalent to Vno/yellow arc for piston aircraft – the “barber pole” in jets)
  • It is also well well above the “design dive speed” VD of 420kt (the real “never exceed speed”, although with different margins than the piston red-line)
  • the dynamic pressure at 510kt is around 50% higher than at 420kt

So in summary, at 510kt, the aircraft is subject to loads that exceed the design by 50%.

According to FAR 25, the aircraft has to be built with at least a 50% margin above the design limit. I believe the confusion arises because people think Vmo is the design limit, while in reality it is VD.

So on paper, the aircraft was flown right at the structural limit, but not above.

And in reality, the loads that kill the wings are vertical loads and transients, e.g., in gusts, they rarely fail backwards.

So there is no immediate reason why the aircraft should break up at that speed.

Last Edited by Cobalt at 25 Jul 19:14
Biggin Hill

There is a bunch of people rebuilding the Apollo Guidance Computer. You can see their work in a series of videos. I am watching this one



A 5V reference voltage was showing 4.999V (well within the DVM accuracy anyway) after 50 years!

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I think a lot of ‘reasonably intelligent people believing the moon hoax conspiracy’ is just another example of Mount Stupid:

Andreas IOM

Don’t you think that in that curve the line with increasing knowledge should flatten out rather than go up, as those who really know about something will sooner or later give up to the mount stupid poster as those usually have a much higher insistence that their viewpoint is right?

I would not even want to enter a discussion about “fake moon”, chemtrails or other such utter garbage because I know I am gonna get really angry before long and nothing I say will convince anyone that their conspiracy theory is not the absolute truth.

I know one should never cease to fight seeing what mass psychosis have done in the past, but there is a point where you tire out of trying to knock sense into these dimwits who are just too happy to live in their miserable world and tell everyone else we are all gonna die. Unfortunately, if we don’t counter these things and let them spread unhindered then they will in the end prevail and their fake beliefs will become “public knowledge”. Not that that has not happened in the past many many times with horriffic results.

I don’t have the solution… truth ministries who clean the internet of garbage are not the answer, but there should be a way to somehow stop the spread of total garbage.. but how without closing the net to the public for posting I have no idea.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

The curve illustrates the Dunning-Kruger effect. But I think that belief in conspiracy theories is fundamentally something different.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 27 Jul 10:24
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Well, the belief is one bit, the argumentation about it is something else. And that is where your curve comes in.

You don’t need conspiracy theories, it is enough that there is some perceived “truth” of something which won’t go away and is contantly cultivated by some proponents in a viral way. It won’t take long until those who know about the subject stop responding because they tire out and don’t need the frustration. Consequently the false “truth” prevails and is no longer challenged.

It would be interesting to know how the moon hoax theory came up and who first proposed it. However, it is no question where it blossomed to the extent that it had today: Initially via nutcase newsmagazines in the US (the ones which have articles about people holding aliens at home and Elvis being seen alive in Texas…) but then the Internet came along and later and platforms like Youtube which has loads of “documentaries” which are beyond the pale.

The truth in all these things are out there but who cares as long as fake news make a better story. And what worries me is that fake news of all sorts become commonplace and worse, the fact it exists becomes commonplace resulting in a general loss of trust by the population towards the serious news media who in most cases still try to keep some sort of jurnalistic quality…

I think Buzz Aldrin yet again got it very right when he simply replied to a challenge that he had never been on the moon by punching the guy in the nose.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

A guy called Bill Kaysing started the moon hoax conspiracy. Its origin is a book called “We Never Went to the Moon: America’s Thirty Billion Dollar Swindle.”

People believed it because Bill Kaysing (like many who start conspiracy theories) applied a veneer of authority to himself by trumpeting his role working for a NASA contractor. He was a technical writer, not a rocket scientist.

Andreas IOM

Strictly speaking, Buzz hit the guy for calling him a coward. He put up with the bloke’s nonsense until then. The video is out there and easy to find.

Last Edited by Joe-fbs at 27 Jul 18:43
strip near EGGW

I have seen Buzz Aldrin speak, it was a great night. Sadly I never saw Neil Armstrong in person, there is a video of him speaking at the Society of Experimental Test Pilots that is very inspiring. They are great pilots and have brains the size of a planet. Aldrin’s PhD thesis was how to do orbital rendezvous. Armstrong became a university teacher, professor I think.

strip near EGGW
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