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Autorouter issues and questions (merged)

I’ve had the same problem with XANES. This waypoint is neither in JeppView nor Skydemon. In my case, I replaced XANES with NELLI.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

XANES is a procedure-only waypoint although it looks unused to me (not in the EDDS waypoint list in the AIP). I’ll ask DFS about it.

There was a bug in autorouter where we would choose routing solutions involving procedure-only waypoints as the top hit. We normally do not recommend such routes (i.e. place them in a lower position in the result list) but sometimes there is no alternative. This bug was fixed on April 12th. Therefore a situation like above should no longer happen, especially when the phantom enroute waypoints in Germany disappear with the next AIRAC.

Navdata quality is a huge issue in Eurocontrol land…

Or you can enter BAGED as a user waypoint in your GNS430/530 – if you know the coordinates.

Last Edited by at 15 Apr 12:29
LFPT, LFPN

It’s definitely not in the GNS430 database … had that same thing yesterday!

ETSI - Ingolstadt, Germany

It’s not in the Flitestar database either.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There are several “official” source for waypoints.

1) The paper AIPs (paper = PDF file). This is the traditional “analog” format. Jeppesen create their database with the paper AIPs like they have been doing this for the last 60 years.

2) The Eurocontrol EAD database (called SDO). This is supposed to be the main repository where each member country (that participates, some still refuse like Switzerland!) is responsible for the correctness of data.

3) Eurocontrol NM CACD, that is the system behind IFPS.

All of these databases have quality problems. autorouter is a bit unique in that it uses CACD as its main navdata source when generating plans. We also use EAD to match and we have found and reported dozens of mistakes which get corrected rather quickly by either Eurocontrol or the member countries.

JeppFD and all Garmin products use the Jeppesen database, i.e. paper AIP. SkyDemon and other tools use the EAD database. In the BAGED case, we missed it earlier because we were focused on CACD waypoints that are not in EAD. This waypoint is still in EAD (among a whole list of others) and we have just received confirmation from DFS that they are scheduled for removal. As it’s in both CACD and EAD, autorouter and SkyDemon will know it whereas other tools using the paper AIP don’t.

It’s a bit unfortunate that we as (paying) customers have to do this work. If there was somebody dedicated at Eurocontrol with a bit of database knowledge, these discrepancies could be found in a mostly automated fashion. Good news is that database quality is definitely getting better!

Last Edited by achimha at 15 Apr 13:42

This bug was fixed on April 12th. Therefore a situation like above should no longer happen, especially when the phantom enroute waypoints in Germany disappear with the next AIRAC.

I got XANES today when requesting a routing from EDDV to EDNY at FL100.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 15 Apr 16:44
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

autorouter question: why can’t we login on autorouter.eu?

A question to @achimha / @tomjnx or maybe others who know the reason:

I registered for autorouter via euroga.org. Now I cannot login on http://autorouter.eu, I have to go to http://router.euroga.org. Why is that restriction in place?

My problem is that when I am on the airfield and have to work over my phone, I always forget the address http://router.euroga.org but I remember http://autorouter.eu, so I have to search for the address – several more steps, more than actually planing a flight on autorouter. With mobile network connection still being pretty slow at some airfields, I would very much like it to be able to directly login.

LSZH, LSZF

They are different logins.

The EuroGA login credentials are what you originally set up on EuroGA.

The Autorouter login (a separate login route which Achim implemented) uses login credentials configured on that site.

They are thus effectively separate websites. One cannot see the login credentials used on the other. There is an authentication process that guarantees two-way anonymity – a bit like you can use a facebook login to log into some unrelated website, and that website cannot see your facebook login+password.

I just use router.euroga.org – I don’t think I ever set up a login for the other login route (no pun intended).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

When you try to logon with your EuroGA-registered email, it should tell you that you have to go to router.euroga.org and should also take you there automatically.

As Peter said, two different credential systems. However, you are not the first to get confused and I believe we should try to make it more seamless. I’ll look into it.

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