Hilariously, that route validates ok at 3000ft.
I don’t understand your amazement about that. Your example is a totally legitimate way to fly an IFR flight.
What would you expect the computer to do? Reject it? Why?
After all, an ACK does merely mean “the flightplan is OK from our side”. An ACK does not mean “allright, expect to have a full, nice radar control service all the way from start to finish.”
Seriously, with the way the UK airspace is structured, there is no other way IFPS can respond. If such an FPL generated a “REJ”, then one could never fly IFR OCAS on a flightplan (required for international FIR crossings for example).
Or would you want IFPS to say “acknowledged, but be aware that at least part of flight will be OCAS and you will thus be uncontrolled”? Not necessary IMHO, since the pilot should be aware of that from his preflight planning. Not the job of IFPS to tell the pilot.
File it and try it..
See what happens.
only in UK you can fly uncontrolled IFR
No! The thing with UK is not the ability to fly uncontrolled IFR — many countries allow that — it’s that IFR OCAS is not part of “the system”. In most countries where IFR OCAS is permitted (as in the Scandinavian countries), all IFR flight plans are “in the system” regardless of controlled or uncontrolled airspace.
Exactly.
Nothing wrong with Eurocontrol accepting “I” at 3000ft (OCAS). The problem, which continues to catch out new IR holders, and non-UK IR holders, is that such a flight plan gets discarded by UK enroute ATC, and thus the pilot
So your nice “I” flight plan at 3000ft is merely
which is exactly what you would have got by filing “V”, without the potential Eurocontrol complication.
Sorry for the probably repeated question… How will a non-UK pilot know that one isn’t in the system after a successful filing with Eurocontrol?
Sorry for the probably repeated question… How will a non-UK pilot know that one isn’t in the system after a successful filing with Eurocontrol?
ATC will tell you! The “problem” Peter describes is only relevant if you are flying IFR in uncontrolled airspace. This is something as a German you most probably would like to avoid 
My personal experience with UK ATC is quite positive. Very professional and friendly.
If you fly airways in the UK the IFR system will be more or less the same as in Germany.
Sorry for the probably repeated question… How will a non-UK pilot know that one isn’t in the system after a successful filing with Eurocontrol?
Been there, done that. It is a trap and it is a tricky one. If you ever hear the words “Contact London Information”, then you should be alarmed, that means they are about to kick you out. London Information cannot be compared to e.g. Langen Information, they apparently don’t even have a radar screen. In my experience, when they let you go OCAS, they make absolutely no promise as to whether they will take you back in when you cross the next airway (which are scarce in the UK). It might already fail because London Control ATC can fire their machine gun instructions without taking a breath for minutes… Southern UK is an incredibly busy airspace.
Make sure to read Philipp’s “Fliegen in UK” which explains it very well for us simple minded pilots from the continent. Once you understand the UK system and get comfortable with it, you realize that it is very different but also very powerful.
Hilariously, that route validates ok at 3000ft.
Nothing wrong with Eurocontrol accepting “I” at 3000ft (OCAS)
Sigh… 
Again, in your opinion, what should the IFPS response be to your mentioned flightplan from Shoreham to Lydd?
How will a non-UK pilot know that one isn’t in the system after a successful filing with Eurocontrol?
I think I answered this one here before. The clues might be
The “problem” Peter describes is only relevant if you are flying IFR in uncontrolled airspace
Not really. You could file “I” EGKA SFD EGMD at FL060, which is ~500ft in CAS and still London Control might dump it. There is a good chance they won’t because a lot of initial IR tests in the south are done at 060/070 so the examiner hears you speak to London Control for the 5 minutes before you descend again, so he can tick the box which says “not spooked by hearing Ryanair or Lufthansa every 10 seconds” Also more generally you could file “I” on a route which passes in and out of CAS.
As I have said before, the rules they use to decide are unpublished. But in general the crossing points for the London Area (the London TMA) are around FL090/100 and above. I think bookworm knows the detail here.
… UK ATC is quite positive. Very professional and friendly.
Agreed, but if they don’t have your flight plan they don’t have your flight plan.
Anyway, if your FP did get dumped, the dep clearance won’t contain the London Control frequency to start with so you aren’t going to find out The exception to this might be if you obtained the dep clearance with a phone call to London Control (which is possible though I have never done it) but I am very sure they will at that point check if they have the flight plan and will tell you if not.
It has to be said however that people have been banging on about this stuff for years, and the situation is improving all the time. I think one trigger for improving it has been that some IMC Rated pilots (who can’t go IFR into Class A) did file “I” flight plans and got into a big mess when they called up London Control and got sent to Class A. Another has been the infamous early dumping of traffic entering the UK from the south / south-east (LC now keep you high for a lot longer).
The UK IFR system is very good but you need to know how to play it if you want to use your IR to get VMC on top, and be assured of being able to climb as necessary. I never file for less than FL100 (unless immediately leaving UK airspace).
what should the IFPS response be to your mentioned flightplan from Shoreham to Lydd?
No issue with them validating it. It is the reality afterwards I bang on about… no problem for the “locals”, but that is always true.
No! The thing with UK is not the ability to fly uncontrolled IFR — many countries allow that — it’s that IFR OCAS is not part of “the system”. In most countries where IFR OCAS is permitted (as in the Scandinavian countries), all IFR flight plans are “in the system” regardless of controlled or uncontrolled airspace.
Airborne,
very true, but I am interested in the details. Say one wants to fly uncontrolled (and without radio contact with ATC, i.e. below 3000 feet) IFR from a small Danish airfield to another small Swedish airfield. One would have to file a flightplan (since it’s international) and indicate, say, “A025” as an altitude in the flightplan. You say “all IFR flightplans are in the system”. Since they have a flightplan, wouldn’t the various ATC centers along the route expect to be called by the pilot? Will they just bin the flightplan if he never calls up?
