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Autorouter issues (merged thread)

You should probably open a ticket from the Autorouter. Look at the Support tab (top right corner).

LFPT, LFPN

That seems to be a bug, and is probably due to the fact that for flight planning purposes, all airfields in France are considered to be “IFR” in as far as they allow India flightplans. However, you rightly point out that when you are looking for alternates, you would be looking only for airports with published IFR procedures.

A hint towards @achimha should probably solve this.

Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany

thank you both for your help. I will send a ticket, just to let them know in case.

LFBZ LFBP, France

I don’t think this is a bug. Autorouter gets the info from the Eurocontrol database which has information on what airports are permitted for IFR operations and that info is comes from each country.

Sweden declares every airport permitted for IFR. Personally I think that’s great as I can file IFR to or from my uncontrolled grass field which part-NCO permits me to do. Of course to make an approach in that case you must have visual conditions below the MSA but in principle that’s not different from any minima — only higher.

From @jeff64’s description it sounds like France is doing it the same way.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Yes, they do. But again, for IFR alternats one would usually be looking for airports with published IFR procedures, no?

So maybe not a “bug”, but to me, at least it doesn’t make much sense to suggest any airfield as an alternate.

BTW…

I can file IFR to or from my uncontrolled grass field which part-NCO permits me to do. Of course to make an approach in that case you must have visual conditions below the MSA.

You mean legally speaking? Where do you take that from?

Last Edited by boscomantico at 29 Dec 15:20
Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany

Would there be any sense in choosing alternates automatically?

Normally one chooses alternates manually, for

  • having an IAP with a better minima than the destination (preferably an ILS)
  • having avgas
  • not being a total and complete hellhole, where you land and then wait for an hour to get a taxi somewhere miles away

Unfortunately both the developers of the router seem to have left EuroGA. It’s a pity because EuroGA did a huge amount to help them launch the product and debug it. I personally did a vast amount of beta testing feedback. Well, nothing one can do about it. People come and go… for all sorts of sometimes bizzare reasons. So if you want any answers it may be better to go to their website and open a support ticket. They don’t support anybody on here anymore.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

boscomantico wrote:

You mean legally speaking? Where do you take that from?

From there being no requirement in part-NCO for IFR procedures either for departures or approaches.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I was referring specifically to

Of course to make an approach in that case you must have visual conditions below the MSA.

Sure enough, under IFR, you are allowed to go below the MSA for the purpose of landing…

Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

Sure enough, under IFR, you are allowed to go below the MSA for the purpose of landing…

Sorry, I am totally confused as to what you are asking.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Haha no worries!

It seemed to me you were saying that where no published instrument approach exists, whilst in IMC, one could not legally go below the MSA *. This I was questioning.

Note that I am no friend of DIY approaches in low conditions, but there doesn’t seem to be anything in the current EASA framework which would prohibit that.

* By the way, IIRC, the acronym “MSA” should is only used in connection with published instrument approaches. Outside of those, the term MSA does not apply. Outside of any published procedure, according to ICAO and SERA, the lowest IFR cruise altitude (unless taking off or landing!) is simply 1000 foot above the highest obstacle (2000 in mountaineous areas).

Last Edited by boscomantico at 30 Dec 12:00
Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany
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