Frans wrote:
For example: If the AIP mentions “CUST non-Schengen 24 PPR”, then customs from Schengen is not allowed, even it sounds very strange and unusuall.
The very term CUST non-Schengen is totally wrong. Schengen has N O T H I N G to do with customs. That is why my point is that DFS needs to be made to change this wrong information.
There is a good chance that an arrival from Schengen with customs needed would be allowed with a PPR from the customs authority. That may well be what went wrong here.
Where I agree is that it would be necessary to fight such a case through the courts to as high as it can go. But that needs a huge war chest. I bet the customs authorities are aware of that and exploit it.
I regard it also as very dangerous if advice ends up being “Avoid Germany”. We currently have so many countries to avoid for various reasons that it questions the very existence of GA. Also customs ARE possible in Germany but the procedures need to be observed. And sadly, the AIP fails to give correct instructions how to do it. So generally only full AOE are safe to be used unless you are darn sure on how to apply for PPR on any other airfield. Avoiding Germany would basically make flying for many people a useless exercise.
Stepping away from that case a bit, what pilots have to accept (for now) and consider is
…tax and duty is essentially a mine field for the uninitiated (and does not look like getting better)
…airfields and small airports are staffed with folks untrained in this area and only may know the right numbers to call
…customs and immigration are independent, a fligjt plan does not give you other entitlement than to fly for A to B (different in regimes where the government controls everything tightly, but comes with other drawbacks)
That is one of the main advantages of the EU and Schengen concepts – the great majority of small GA flying from coast to coast never has to deal with these issues, because they stay inside the common area. And I appreciate that greatly.
If you enter/leave there is the easy way: AOE as first point. If that is not convenient, the responsibility for compliance lies with the individual.
(Yes, AIP is very bad in this case – and it shouldnt be punished as has been – that said, AIP is by no means a tax and duty advisory!)
I still see the biggest problem that if Customs (contacted on their number in the AIP) don’t answer the phone, hang up when they hear English, etc, don’t answer their email, you simply cannot fly there regardless of what assurance you have been given elsewhere. Unless, I guess, the airport is in that first list.
valid from 16.08.2018
Airport Augsburg
Berlin Brandenburg Airport
- from the moment of opening
Airports Berlin-Schönefeld and Berlin-Tegel
- until the time of closure
Bremen Airport
Airport Dortmund
Dresden Airport
Dusseldorf Airport
Airport Erfurt-Weimar
Frankfurt Main Airport (including landing site Egelsbach)
Friedrichshafen Airport
Airport Hahn
Hamburg Airport
Hannover Airport
Airport Karlsruhe / Baden-Baden
Cologne / Bonn Airport
Leipzig / Halle Airport
Memmingerberg Airport (Allgäu Airport)
Munich Airport
Airport Münster / Osnabrück
Nuremberg Airport
Airport Paderborn / Lippstadt
Rostock-Laage Airport
Saarbrücken Airport
Stuttgart Airport
Weeze Airport
Then you still have to meet any PNR requirements, no? And what if your notification is not received?
Yes. Foreigners, who don’t speak German, will usually resort to those (unless they get help locally). Fortunately, many of these airports not not too expensive (despite being “big”) and are accomodating to light VFR or IFR.
But the original subject here was more about Swiss pilots coming into Germany. They might be more inclined to use other airfelds (since they tend to even more suitable for light aircraft / leisure flying).
unless they get help locally
Isn’t that what this guy did? The airport manager told him it’s ok to land there.
I was planning to fly to ETMN, with local help. It may happen post-brexit, so what is the 100% safe procedure?
At those official customs airports there is no PNR. That’s why they are sometimes easier than small places with PNR, PPR.
“I still see the biggest problem that if Customs (contacted on their number in the AIP) don’t answer the phone, hang up when they hear English, etc, don’t answer their email, you simply cannot fly there regardless of what assurance you have been given elsewhere "
Heard that a lot, and when enquired further , it happened some time in the 90ies ;-)
Who has called a customs office recently and experienced that – personally, not the cousin of a friend of your brother in law…
With regards to the distinction between “Customs” and “Immigration” matters and the way these things are represented (for example) in the German AIP VFR and the Jeppesen Airway Manual VFR.
I think that some people who think they very clever might not actually have it right. Let’s take that case of EDFW again:
CUST Zoll für nicht Schengener-Länder/customs for non-Schengen States
PPR 1 Werktag/workday
Zoll/customs ☎ (09721) 64640, Fax 64641800
Polizei/police ☎ (0931) 4572230
That “CUST” thing must not be understood as “Customs” in the narrow sense.
In fact, when you look into various (full) AIPs, that “Customs” thing does not exist. It’s rather says “Customs and Immigration”.
See for example the German or the French AIP:
In the AD Directory of the AIP VFR and the Jeppesen Airway Manual VFR, this is merely shortened to either “CUST” or “Customs”. For space reasons, Quite obviously. Much of the info about one airfield (which often covers 50 or 100 pages) is compressed into a small paragraph!
Hence, the abbreviation “CUST” rather must be read as: "in terms of customs and immigration matters, the airport has the following regulations:“
So, coming back to EDFW:
CUST Zoll für nicht Schengener-Länder/customs for non-Schengen States
PPR 1 Werktag/workday
must be read as such. So: for non-Schengen countries, it is PPR by 1 workday. This also implies that it is not avalable for non-EU countries.
(Makes perfect sense: as a matter of fact, the airfield is NOT a “Zollplatz” or a “Besonderer Landeplatz”, but it IS a Schengen border crossing point).
That’s what they wanted to get across. The only “error” there is in that entry is that they put the word “Zoll” / “Customs” in there once again, which indeed implies speaking of Customs in the narrow sense.
If they had written
CUST Für nicht Schengener-Länder/for non-Schengen States
PPR 1 Werktag/workday
all would be good.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
There is a good chance that an arrival from Schengen with customs needed would be allowed with a PPR from the customs authority. That may well be what went wrong here.Würzburg is not on the A-list from German customs for “other allowed airfields”, so you will need a “Einzelbefreiung” for Würzburg EDFW.
“I was planning to fly to ETMN, with local help. It may happen post-brexit, so what is the 100% safe procedure?”
Safe option: Stop in Calais (PNR) or Groningen (no PNR) ;-)
If you plan a weekend trip to ETMN you have to notify them anyway. So request immigration and customs there beforehand for arrival and get it in (email) writing that they have been notified.
Smartass mode: I guess local help by Bosco did not mean to listen to the opinion of someone unrelated to the task, but get help to notify the relevant agencies.
Yes, I think this is a bit like painting the devil on the wall. Customs is not a new thing, and it has always been difficult.
The basic principles still remains. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking customs regulations (or any other regulations for that matter). The individual has the sole responsibility.
Information about these regulations is a typical job for the pilot organisations.
