Indeed, so I guess the Swiss tradition of a referendum comes to mind. But I suppose the CV issue is too dynamic for that.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
@T28, no idea who you are and why you keep denying what has been in the news, even on Swiss TV.
I don’t see that he is denying it. What is says is that this is not a new practice but was done even before the Covid-19 pandemic.
@T28, no idea who you are and why you keep denying what has been in the news, even on Swiss TV. The appeals started even in the first wave when the then taskforce kept telling people to do “Patientenverfügungen” to this effect
I am someone who doesn’t get his news on TV. The “Patientenverfügung” – or care instructions should the patient lose his decision-making capacity – has been standard procedure for a long time now in the Swiss medical system. There’s even an instructions card you can carry in your wallet. The Task Force certainly didn’t need to “encourage” anybody to apply standard procedure. That Swiss TV only reports on the procedure now is testimony to its groundbreaking investigative prowess.
Now maybe you find “shocking” that this discussion is held ahead of time with patients at risk, but usually ahead of time is the moment to have it. It’s hard to think straight when you’re sedated and intubated.
I think this is brilliant
The situation in Croatia seems to be totally out of control. Few northern regions show the worst numbers in whole Europe. The measures government brings are too weak and too late – comparing to the rest of Europe they are practically non-existing. And even those are usually not respected. After summer with practically 0 cases in majority of the country and empty hospitals, these days the hospitals are overcrowded, army is setting up tents in front the hospitals, ventilators are scarce and in some hospitals the oxygen reserves are depleted. The whole system is at the edge of breaking down.
Malibuflyer wrote:
It’s actually an interesting concept of democracy that “those in charge” are responsible to impose measures that the vast majority of the population obviously don’t want!
looking at various surveys where people were asked whether they regard the measures as adequate, too lax, too strict or in that sense in various papers and platforms, it is by no means a majority who does not want the measures, but a vocal minority of at best 30% of the general population depending on how the questions are set. So not a problem of majority issues, in most surveys 60-70% of those replying were asking for stronger measures, but rather who shouts the louder. The much bigger problem are the lobbies of various branches of the economy and political spectra, who have a unduely high leverage on those responsible.
Silvaire wrote:
He’s the first person I know in person who has had CV19.
Either in your neck of the woods they don’t test out of lack of means or principle or you are really living in a protected kind of sphere.
We just learnt that two close friends are both positive and quite ill. I learnt that a friend lost his grandma to it (early 60ties) and a workmate lost his father. Personally I’ve lost a very good friend in the US and have learnt of two more in Utah who have just resurfaced after being completely gone for 2 months, a pilot friend of mine in Innsbruck and plenty more who have gone through it or are still at it. And if the government here would finally take their fingers out of their backside and do mass testing as has now been announced for Austria and has passed in Slovenia, I am sure the numbers found would be staggering.
Right now they are trying to tell us numbers are down to half what they were 2 weeks ago, but I doubt that. Fact is, that many here refuse to be tested as they don’t want to be isolated, egoism pure. The number to watch will be hospitalisations and deaths. They seem stable, but not yet significantly reducing. They are in any case far higher than in spring and will likely remain so.
We have been told today that vaccines will not be available in Switzerland until possibly the 2nd quarter 2021 as their certification authority will want to go through the normal certification process, no fast tracking like everywhere else. It is almost as if they don’t want this to end.
The german Covid Guru Drosten meanwhile is warning of MERS resurfacing. He sais, this will probably be the next pandemic to come and urges development of vaccines against that one as well.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Either in your neck of the woods they don’t test out of lack of means or principle or you are really living in a protected kind of sphere.
They do more testing here than in most areas, a great deal more in fact, and the recorded infection rate is up. That doesn’t mean it’s up enough for me to be regularly running into people who have had CV19. My comments were anyway not in relation to broad statistics, they were in relation to my own experience.
My statistic is that I’ve met one person in total who has CV19, and the same or similar is true for people I know. It’s not an important statistic at all unless you happen to be me, with my behavior and my contacts, but it’s useful to me.
The 50/50 split is well underway
From Pieter Elbers
KLM: No plans to make Covid vaccine mandatory; May need more gov’t support.
Also
Please ‘’no they must be Covidiots’’ or worse, Conspiracy Theorists
Mooney_Driver wrote:
but a vocal minority of at best 30% …. the lobbies of various branches of the economy [prevent stringer measures]
The 30% don’t really prevent the 70% from being sensible, nor does the restaurant lobby force people to attend their venues at gun-point.
The simple fact is that the majority of people simply has decided that they personally prefer to take the risk to be infected with Covid-19 to sitting at home, somewhat at the expense of the ones who have a higher risk of dying from it (i.e., older or chronically ill people).
Egoistic – certainly. Irrational – maybe people still underestimate the severity of the disease, but then, they bear the consequences in the same way an off-piste skier bears the consequence of falling into a crevasse, or a base-jumper the risk of hitting the ground too fast.
A twitter survey here in the UK suggests 20% won’t take it. Note however that is that fairly specific age group. Older people are consistently showing as a lot more likely to take it.
This is from Canada, and it shows blood type has a much smaller effect than previously reported:
From link posted above
How nice of Tradewinds to be so bloody selfish. If they really wanted to offer people a “choice” (as they stupidly and transparently pretend to be doing) they would sell the tickets and allow customers to choose. This is just an anti vaxxer who runs the company using it to make his point. I hope his customers take a walk – elsewhere! Who needs a travel agent, anyway, these days?
I am not surprised about 99+% being anti-vaxxers. On FB that seems to be the case. They are all over the place and making a lot of noise. 5G, nanoparticles, Bill Gates, the whole lot.
